The pitfalls of helping newcomers...

[Dylan Marvin]

There's a lot of great Flash folks here that seem to always help out their fellow members, new and old alike. Thanks.

So here's the dilemma:

Let's say you want to advise, or offer code suggestions, to someone relatively new to this site who posts their troubles. Y'know, to show them they're welcomed into this helpful community and all. Then you notice that you've spent a lot of cumulative HOURS writing code, offering suggestions and so forth to people's queries, and you wait... and wait... and nothing. No "hey that worked", "hey that didn't", or "thanks"--no response. They leave the site whether reading your answer or not. You notice this happens a lot. You think "why bother, I've got stuff to do!"

So. honestly, do you (anyone) give the same effort in your answers to users with 2 comments as you do one with 200? Is it snobbish to limit who you help? Or is it good time-management?

[icemart525]

i'm not that good in flash but i still help when i think i know the answer, don't know why.

[Dylan Marvin]

I like to as well... but my problem--and the fun part I think--is helping when you feel challenged. Y'know, you think you could derive the answer after a little toying around with code. And one learns a bit themselves doing that. I guess my point is sometimes it feels off-putting if you spend 15 minutes or more putting together a working solution 'cause someone made you think it was important to them, and you never here from them or anyone else regarding your post.

[tg]

been that way for years.... some folks give feedback to your suggestions (ie. that worked thanks, or that didnt work what next), some dont..... thats the breaks. all of us tho would love some sort of feedback.... but even without i keep helping. some.

[Xeef]

i try to help all the time (less in the last time, busy whit my own code )

BUT
1. it's geting boring to ancer one and the same question over and over agein !
so i limit this strongly and just some time ancere them !

2. people whit 200 and more post normaly don't apply to 1.)
advanced questions are alway welcome ;)

3. people whit 1000's of post get's more attention by me because they helped a lot and mayby they also helped me

4.
there are a couple of people around (don't wana name them) whit 100's of question but barely an ancer they are ignored by me most the time
it's no ofence but if somebody asking 1000's of questions and don't ancer one
either he
is an ashole
or to stupid (i ancer to help learning not to make they work)
either way :p

5. it's making me sometime also angry if i have ancered X posts and get not one "thx it's works"
but then the thread whit "Xeef you are a live saver" is coming and all is fine agein ;)


it woud by a great future to VB to have

1. limit the number of open question (a Q is open till the ancer is proven as OK by the questioner / the thread not have to by clossen)

2. sending postS (over and over agin) to the questioner that ther is an ancer to his Q
(if he din't prove it whithin a certain time)
so we woud get secure feadback OR his postBox woud end up whit 1000's of
PLS prove your thread :D

[Cota]

Whether they say thank you or not, I answer what I can. I find I get more "thanks that works" or "didnt work" more times then I get nothing. And of course, when someome with 1000's of post asks a question, I'll go the extra mile. I'll research it alittle and see if I cant help find the solution whether I knew the answer to begin with or not. And yes, there are some people here with a few hundred posts that I will completely ignore. All in all, Its the people that just dont get the answer you're giving them. They want you to do it for them..those are the ones that get me. For example, I've seen this a few times

"I need a Flash file that will take this information from the user, process it, do some fancy animations, and save it all in a database. Doesnt matter what database, just please include it. I need it by next week"

That drives me completely insane.

[CyanBlue]

Just to answer the original question... :) (Other things that are discussed in the thread are all true...)

It discourages you to answer the question which has no feedback... That's true, but there also are people who search the forum and pick up the stuff that they are looking for and that could be the answer you just provided to that dumb guy... So... It's okay as long as somebody appreciates my time and there will be somebody sometime somewhere... That's my 2 cents...

Thanks for the help at the forum... You're help is really appreciated, all... :)

[Dylan Marvin]

"I need a Flash file that will take this information from the user, process it, do some fancy animations, and save it all in a database. Doesnt matter what database, just please include it. I need it by next week"

That's funny. And sad. How about "I don't know actionscripts but I want to build like a Grand Theft auto game. I tried Google already. Can someone write me some scripts to get strated."
ps: Glad I don't appear to be on your list! :)

CyanBlue, now I feel all warm and fuzzy. Thanks.

[Cota]

Thats another area...making sure solutions are posted so that others can see it. Some people just leave, nevermind, I figured it out...I usually follow up with, could you please post your solution so others may learn.

[hangalot]

don't expect anything when you answer people, if they start grating on your nerves walk away. some people pm you then, and you just ignore that. i tend to answer stuff i am interested in, somedays i feel really helpfull and actually answer stuff which could have been solved with a simple search.

that is what irritates me the most i think. when i am looking for an answer i google, search the livedocs, read up on other peoples code, ask some of my mates, and only then would i post something. other people expect to be handed the answer.
then again i only started 65 posts... mmmm...

[Cota]

I totally ignore PM's....unless they are from other Mod's or the people I know around here. All in all, I try not to turn anyone away, cause we are a community, good, the bad, and the ugly..we are a community.

[tg]

And yes, there are some people here with a few hundred posts that I will completely ignore.

hmmm.... that explains alot.

[tg]

yeah... i subscribe to the hangalot method.... i do quite a bit of looking around for an answer (or i try to) before posting..... since cota ignores my posts, its usually faster that way.



hehheh.
just kidding cota.

heh. of the 86 threads ive started.... 59 have been in general chat..... guess i better stop goofin off.



damn i cant add.... 49 have been started in gc.... maybe thats whats wrong with my code.... i can't add.

[Cota]

..... since cota ignores my posts, its usually faster that way.


I try to ignore myself too, but I just dont shut up...

[icemart525]

as.org staff should add options such as, mark this as answer, or mark as helpful. then users can earn points if their answers ar marked as correct or helpful. then you can post the top ten most helpful.

[newblack]

I think that you have to think of it communally. If it's good advice/code, it goes far beyond the scope of he who has long since moved on to hardcorelatinas.com. But man, I can't get over the grapes on the people who obviously don't search for an answer to their problem, yet have no problem with someone else doing it for them. I mean senocular and oldnewbie must want to rip their eyelids out with preloader and scene questions respectively. sheesh. preloader in any post title should get parsed to: http://www.senocular.com/flash/tutorials/faq/#preloaderstart -not that i wasn't a total noob 10 minutes ago

[icemart525]

there should be instructions on how to post. something like "Please read before posting." Explain the use of this forum.

[Flash Gordon]

Boy....so much to say here:

As for members that only post to get help, I have the following to say:
I am a "member" of several other forums, including a Photoshop and PHP forum. I have absolutely no skills to begin to even post to help people in thoses areas. I'm alright with PHP, but these guys post 1000's of lines of code....So I understand only posting for answer. I do it too, but I feel I have contributed in other forums a good bit.

As for preloader threads getting parsed to Sencoulars site:
Well...My first thread I posted here was about a preloader and Mr. CyanBlue himself gave me a big ol Howday and Welcome :) " I know for sure this question was post 1000's of time before me, however at that time, I didn't know enought to know what I didn't know. Once people get a little more "mature" with programming they realize that most all questions have already been answered. They really unique ones like "Transparent Mode reving up the fps" are make it worth it.

As for finding thread that are challenging:
Yea Dylan, I know what you mean. That is how I pushed myself to learn new stuff. I didn't have a lot of work in the beginning, so doing other peoples projects that were above my head really pushed my skills forward.

General Thoughts:
Human nature and attitudes don't change. And usually the questions don't either. We are under no obligation to help anyone...so pick and choose which questions you want to answer and from which people. We all have our people we don't like....

Sometimes when I answer my own quesiton, I give myself a big thank you in a "special" way :D (........Who said that, Headshotz???)

[tg]

there should be instructions on how to post. something like "Please read before posting." Explain the use of this forum.


do a search. you will find one.

[Cota]

Author: Pixelwit, I beilieve...speaking of which, there is a name I havent seen a long time.

[hangalot]

yeah he has been gone a long time. quite a few of the older members are MIA at the moment. sad.

[Cota]

Makes you wonder what they are up to..

[tworedballs]

I'm a noob, and I must say that without a forum of some sort to nudge me along I wouldn't be able to get my projects off the ground.

See, the problem with creative minded people is that they're always trying to figure out a new way to get things done! This is why I started working with Flash. Without a forum, where would someone like me find out the difference between this. and _root.? They wouldn't. The HELP section in Flash 8 is damn near worthless and since you can't really download someone's swf and look at the code they used (unlike HTML), you're left scrathing your head trying to figure out how to get an empty MC to work!!!

I've received several answers to questions I've posted, and each has pushed me to the next level in my projects. I do the same for others in my office that may be good with video, but not Illustrator or PhotoShop or InDesign.

I look at it this way: whether or not the member that started the thread individually thanked you by posting or not, you still made their day go a little better than it would have gone if they hadn't gotten any sort of feedback. They, in-turn, might not go home and beat their wife, girlfriend, husband, child, get in a fight during rush hour, get FIRED or have some other catastrophic event take place. They MAY even help someone else with something totally unrelated to your world as a designer! This helps to grease the wheels or life and keeps us around another day. If you don't believe me, rent the DVD "Crash".

So, thanks from a noob that is doing his best to read as much about AS as he can.

Now, does anyone know how to target a specefic frame in an HTML document from a button???:D

[oldnewbie]

A specific frame like in a frameset?

[Cota]

They, in-turn, might not go home and beat their wife, girlfriend, husband, child, get in a fight during rush hour, get FIRED or have some other catastrophic event take place. They MAY even help someone else with something totally unrelated to your world as a designer! This helps to grease the wheels or life and keeps us around another day. If you don't believe me, rent the DVD "Crash".

So, thanks from a noob that is doing his best to read as much about AS as he can.

Now, does anyone know how to target a specefic frame in an HTML document from a button???:D

Didnt realize Flash was that important to the grand scheme of things.

And yes, if you want Flash open an HTML document in another frame within the HTML frame set getURL("Page.html","FrameName");

[tworedballs]

thanks, dude. I'll give that a shot.

It's not Flash that's important in the grand scheme of things- it's the act of helping someone that needs some guidance or direction. I'm not going to get all sentimental and PSA, but it does make a difference. I was half-way being funny and half-way being serious. It's the little S--- that makes a difference on a bad day; know what I mean?

Thanks again.

[Cota]

I know what you mean. But some people here asking questions arent really asking questions, they want you to do it all for them and send you the file.

[oldnewbie]

Then start asking them to make "contributions" to your Paypal account!

[Cota]

I just ignore them. Figure you'll be around to rip them down sooner or later.

[oldnewbie]

That's usually better done by US citizens!

Just consider Iraq... And Iran soon to come!

[pinkaboo]

...all of us tho would love some sort of feedback....

Maybe I can oblige on that one?...TG you stink, I'll give you a 6 out of 10, and one of those is for being far away on the other side of this big ol' country. ;)

*waves* Sorry, couldn't resist...can't sleep. The lil Vilehelm in my tummy won't let me.

Seriously though, this thread is giving me deja vu.

Also reminds me of a little experiment I did way back when, when feeling all taken for granted I took on another persona and all of a sudden got grateful responses for my time. Bah humbug.

[hangalot]

an old timer came out of the mist! congrats on the bump!

ON please be nice, only if its on the posts i am on...i don't care anout what you do in the rest of this forum.

[Dylan Marvin]

That's usually better done by US citizens!
Just consider Iraq... And Iran soon to come!(Please! Don't blame the citizens! Okay, okay, maybe blame the ones in the "red states".)

Anyway, what were taking about? Oh. Yeah. So I've concluded: if you got the time to help out the whole world and need the good karma, post solutions blindly and frequently. If you don't, just come to the general forum and talk about kittens or whatever. :D

[Cota]

or set forest fires..

[Flash Gordon]

and need the good karma,
Did you watch "My name is Earl" last night :p

[senocular]

wow, guys, thanks! Can someone help me with my preloader now?

[Xeef]

goto
senocular.com

there is a nice articel ;)

[Flash Gordon]

goto
senocular.com
Isn't that a porn site :D

[oldnewbie]

wow, guys, thanks! Can someone help me with my preloader now?

Only if you tell me how to target a frame in another scene from a movie clip... Or you explain to me why my button within a mc that has button handlers attached to it, won't work!

[tg]

TG you stink, I'll give you a 6 out of 10, and one of those is for being far away on the other side of this big ol' country.


see.... now dont you feel the love?
(*tg stares at pinks bump* - well obviously pink has.... ha!).


btw pink. i thought the pic in the nursery was great (really). and the nursery is fabulous. good job all around. good to hear from you even if it is to come in and bust my balls. miss ya.

[glantucan]

Hello folks!

I'm just an occasional reader and post'er of this forum, though I would like to spend more time with you. But I have this common flaw of getting involved in too many different things :P

I just wanted to thank you, very very much!! :D I do love you.
I think we all readers of this forum love you...

I understand how depressing must be to answer questions and not to get any feedback. I just answered a few myself and was always checking whether I had an answer or not... I guess it keeps you "on"

But, a very good friend of mine, used to tell me the following (it's a translation from spanish and my english is not good, sorry): "You'll never know how and when, but Life gives you back what yo gave to it"

I beleive he's right. And I try to follow this in every aspect of my own life. And I must say that I feel completely rewarded on my efforts.

And, at the same time I've seen several times how this kind of ungrateful people who sucks your knowledge (or your blood), fall sooner or later, or have a bad experience which makes them change their mind and behaviour.

Again, thank you all

Glantucan

[drexle]

Boy....so much to say here:

As for members that only post to get help, I have the following to say:
I am a "member" of several other forums, including a Photoshop and PHP forum. I have absolutely no skills to begin to even post to help people in thoses areas. I'm alright with PHP, but these guys post 1000's of lines of code....So I understand only posting for answer. I do it too, but I feel I have contributed in other forums a good bit.


I know how that is for sure. Like for example, I'm pretty noobish with databases and server-side development, and sometimes I can't make heads or tails of the documentation, so I post asking a question.

Even here on as.org, I'm pretty sure that I have asked more than a few questions... but at the same time, I've answered a number of them too, so there you go... I do my best to help out when I can. And yeah, it's sometimes dissapointing when my answers don't get a reply... but at the same time I've helped at least one person via pm after they posted on the forums and that felt really nice. Quite enough to make up for the un-acknowledged answers.

Having said that, can someone tell me how to motion tween a shape I drew with the paint brush? ;)

[Ruben]

I want a buttan that on rol over display a animation, but when you rol of it I want the that animation plays, but onlie reversid. Can anybady gife me the fla-file?

Ahaha, couldn't resist the urge :p

Reading through the posts of this thread I was thinking that perhaps we should make an actual FAQ-section in the forums.
Or maybe we could make some kind of question-engine that asks stuff about the problem, first off just global questions (ie "Do you think your problem involves actionscript"), later more detailed questions. After a certain amount of questions have been answered there's an overview of questions+answers/tutorials/threads that are most likely to help the user out..
Much like the identifont-engine thingie (http://www.identifont.com/identify.html).

:) - Ruben


PS. FG, mynameisearl ROCKS! What episode was it you were talking about?

[Cota]

Cyanblue has something like a FAQ..his 5000th useful posts or soemthing like that.

[Ruben]

Yeah I know, but for one thing it's as unfindable as any other random thread on the forums, if we would be to use that as our FAQ to point at then we should at least have a link to it on the forums-index.
Another thing is that I personally would be inclined to just start a thread and state my problem rather then going through a list of 5000 threads..

It just seems to me that we have plenty of info for an FAQ but it's not organised enough; it's all over the place and divided over tens (or hundreds) of threads..

- Ruben

[CyanBlue]

I don't know how useful that thread is when it was summarized around F6 era... I am sure the same logic applies, but other than that, it could actually make people more confused... I don't know... :(

But I do think that the FAQ system would be a good idea... The problem for this system is that it requires lots of people and we don't have a dedicated person who can take care of this... Having said that.. That reminds me of Wiki... Don't you think??? ;)

[Cota]

Everyone is all about the wiki...Lets wait for the new system to finally come out before we even start thinking about that stuff..

[Ruben]

Everyone is all about the wiki...Lets wait for the new system to finally come out before we even start thinking about that stuff..I gather by the new system you are referring to the new CMS and all? If so it's indeed probably a good idea to wait for that before we starting actually doing anything wiki-ish, yes. But we can always discuss things, I can't really see the harm in that..

But I do think that the FAQ system would be a good idea... The problem for this system is that it requires lots of people and we don't have a dedicated person who can take care of this... Having said that.. That reminds me of Wiki... Don't you think??? ;)Wiki sounds like a good idea, I do recogn there should be a certain limitation to who would and who wouldn't be allowed to add/edit information to the FAQ. As in if you would want to do so, you would have to have a minimum of 1 or 2K forum-posts. If that'd be the case you could get a pass of some sort by sending a request-email to some member..
What do you guys think? I wouldn't mind doing my share by starting the initiative for a FAQ and starting the software...

- Ruben

[Jesse]

New system is a little behind the 8 ball because Strok's been sick and I've been busy. All the content is in there. In fact, there's a twin to AS.org up and running right now (on an undisclosed domain) which is running CMS, new design, everything. We'll be hot-swapping this site for that hopefully by the end of the month. Still need to get the homepage and a few other things done!

On the topic of a Wiki, I've been thinking of using something like DocuWiki on the site for a while... but I think we'd have to understand exactly what it's purpose is... I'm getting from this thread that it could potentially be used to store answers to common questions... Not a bad idea at all....

[Cota]

I'm always down to help out with things....but I think the issue we've always had has been everyone talks the game, but no one walks the walk....

[Ruben]

Mind you Cota, I'll walk both the walk and the game as soon as somebody (ie Jesse or whoever) gives the "go!"-signal or aproves in any other way..

- Ruben

[Cota]

I'm with you...after things get set up..we'll get it going.

[Ruben]

Let's unite the Gathering of Cruddists!

- Ruben

[Cota]

Ahahahhaahahaahah...almost forgot about the cruddist..long live our king....who is he by the way?

[Ruben]

Weird dude from Holland, has boiled eggs for breakfast, thinks about dates and years when someone charges him 13,75 for a basket of soaps and occasionally yells random stuff off the balcony 12 stories high..

- Ruben

[Cota]

Thats our guy...all hail that guy!

[CyanBlue]

Whenever I see Ruben and Cota talking, I see that thread going to OT... Is it some sort of coincident??? :D

[Cota]

He brings out the child in me..what can I say..

[CyanBlue]

Huh??? You are expecting another one in the family??? :D

[Cota]

hahahahahaa.....no...no more kids for awhile..

[Ruben]

Whenever I see CyanBlue and Cota talking, I see that thread going to OT.. :p

hahahahahaa.....no...no more kids for awhile..I was about to say that your belly has gotten a little bigger since your last pregnancy..

;) - Ruben

[[Sx]]

I was about to say that your belly has gotten a little bigger since your last pregnancy..

Hips wider as well... now he needs to get 2 plane seats to fit his butt... Luckily, he's staying at NYC, right? ;)

[Cota]

hahahahaha...yeah...my fat arse isnt going anywhere..You guys are stuck with me...

[Ruben]

Hey at least I won't have to look for a new NYC cruddist representative..

:p - Ruben


PS. I can't sleep damnit..

[Cota]

I still run the NYC chapter...WooHoo...All hail that guy!

[Ruben]

.Anyways.. to get back to the original topic (if anyone can remember what it was ;)), does anybody see a potential in an faq-engine like I mentioned?

- Ruben

[CyanBlue]

Hm... What was the original topic???

Yeah, I do see the good potential with the FAQ engine as long as it does not overlap with what's provided in the tutorials section... But let's wait until Jesse & Strok finishes the site first... ;)

[Cota]

Orginal topic...LoL...not with Ruben around...I agree with CyanBlue..wait til Jesse and Strok release the new stie.

[Jesse]

Orginal topic...LoL...not with Ruben around...I agree with CyanBlue..wait til Jesse and Strok release the new stie.

Which will be this weekend. I'm just about to post samples of the new design... See General Chat forum

[Cota]

Where where where...christmas is coming!

[Jesse]

http://actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=106296

I'm kinda sad it's taken us so long to get this going because that means there's hype (for regulars anyway). Hopefully it'll live up to it though :)

[thebeatsuite]

There's a lot of great Flash folks here that seem to always help out their fellow members, new and old alike. Thanks.

So here's the dilemma:

Let's say you want to advise, or offer code suggestions, to someone relatively new to this site who posts their troubles. Y'know, to show them they're welcomed into this helpful community and all. Then you notice that you've spent a lot of cumulative HOURS writing code, offering suggestions and so forth to people's queries, and you wait... and wait... and nothing. No "hey that worked", "hey that didn't", or "thanks"--no response. They leave the site whether reading your answer or not. You notice this happens a lot. You think "why bother, I've got stuff to do!"

So. honestly, do you (anyone) give the same effort in your answers to users with 2 comments as you do one with 200? Is it snobbish to limit who you help? Or is it good time-management?


There is that problem that people won't respond to your efforts and there are those people who are in search of a quick answer. I would say, don't frown because the reason of a forum is to share information with each other and develop a community where over time people within the forum help each other out, collaborate and those with a passion for what they do, know they are providing a useful source of information.

Yeah it sucks not to get the recognition but people don't always have the time and you never know who gains some info, bookmarks the site and ends up joining and posting at another time...

[jsebrech]

I honestly don't care whether people thank me or not when I answer their question.

What does bother me is people who ask a question, lazily spelled, without having done any search (in the forum or google), with an answer that even the most cursory search would have revealed. Or people who PM you. When people PM me I tell them to repost in a public thread, so I can answer their question where everyone can read it.

[CyanBlue]

I honestly don't care whether people thank me or not when I answer their question.

What does bother me is people who ask a question, lazily spelled, without having done any search (in the forum or google), with an answer that even the most cursory search would have revealed. Or people who PM you. When people PM me I tell them to repost in a public thread, so I can answer their question where everyone can read it.
I totally hear you and I do feel the same pain, jsebrech... The best medicine for that is to ignore such threads/people and devote your time for those people who are in need of your precious time... ;)

[gbellitt]

Personally, I am a novice with Flash and any kind of coding. I have posted a couple of questions on this forum. I was somewhat disappointed when the first one went unanswered until I found it elsewhere.

I did go back and forth with Sophistikat on one of my questions and the help that was provided solved my problem and I thanked him, (or her.)

Common courtesy should always have a place in our interactions whether in person or otherwise. Thanks to all of you pros out there who take time out from your schedules to help us novices out. Your voluntary input helps more than most books or formal training.

Cheers!!

[CyanBlue]

Personally, I am a novice with Flash and any kind of coding. I have posted a couple of questions on this forum. I was somewhat disappointed when the first one went unanswered until I found it elsewhere.
Howdy and Welcome, gbellitt... :)

Just to let you know, we are doing what we can do to help others, but sometimes lots of questions just does not get attention for various reasons... Normally it happens when the question is not clear enough for others to understand the situation or when the question is something that occurs fairly often or when our brain just does not work... But don't get sad because somebody did not answer your question... You probably will be finding your answer by searching through the forum... I have been in this town for some years and I can say that at least 70% of the new questions are already covered by somebody else... ;)

I am not saying that to discourage you or anything... You are always welcome to jump in and get this place interesting... We all need some brain exercise, you know... ;)

[gbellitt]

Thanks for the tip...as I said,, I did find the answer elsewhere, so I am learning not only how to use Flash, but also how to look for answers when they aren't apparent. There are a lot of very helpful programmers on this forum and they are all appreciated...at least by me!!

Thanks, and I will keep this forum on the top of my list to search for answers first before asking the questions.