Microsoft Attacks Flash?

[audiowizard]

Who other than I, perceives Microsoft's latest IE update, which blocks Flash content, to be an attack on Flash? From which they hope that consumers believe there to be inconsistent compatibility issues with Flash, and therefor decide to purchase and use Microsoft's new Expression software?

Things that make ya go hmmm...

http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/web_designer/default.mspx

Personally I won't use that crap.

[Colin Campbell]

As much as some people would like it, this isn't some conspiracy out of Redmond to tamper with Flash's success. This has to do with ActiveX and how it displays content. Microsoft foolheartedly coded in a patented method and they got taken to court over it -- the other side, Eidos or something like that, won -- and now every website that uses ActiveX to display content in Internet Explorer (read: Flash, Quicktime, etc) needs to be clicked once before the media becomes interactive.

It's a crappy deal for everyone, Microsoft included. This will just drive more people to download Firefox and other alternate browsers.

[Flash Gordon]

I don't think it will. I think the average internet use will be suspicious when they see a flash website or any Active X control. Most people never heard of FF, and past firing up their "box" they now absolutely nothing more.

As for Microsoft's new Expression software you got to know if a years time, it is going to have great penitration. Perhaps in several years time, it may be more than FP. M$ is going to include it with the "high priority" updates.

[oldnewbie]

I agree with Colin!

[catbert303]

As much as some people would like it, this isn't some conspiracy out of Redmond to tamper with Flash's success. This has to do with ActiveX and how it displays content. Microsoft foolheartedly coded in a patented method and they got taken to court over it -- the other side, Eidos or something like that, won -- and now every website that uses ActiveX to display content in Internet Explorer (read: Flash, Quicktime, etc) needs to be clicked once before the media becomes interactive.

It's a crappy deal for everyone, Microsoft included. This will just drive more people to download Firefox and other alternate browsers.

Except Firefox (and every other alternate browser that can display content such as flash embedded in pages) also violates the same patent. It's just up till now EOLAS have only gone after microsoft.

I guess this will just drive more people to download Lynx ;)

[icemart525]

People won't bother, they'll still use IE.

[mjorge]

Take a look at this tutorial at Kirupa:

http://www.kirupa.com/developer/flash8/flash_fix.htm

[hangalot]

um, yeah. you know that tps report, yeah.

just incase you missed the memo on this one, a project called flash object solves this already, um yeah. i will go ahead and send you that memo again, yeah, but for now um yeah, google flashobject.

this has been discussed ad naseum.

as a side note flashobject might have to change its name due to copyright lawyers being on the case.

[drexle]

As much as some people would like it, this isn't some conspiracy out of Redmond to tamper with Flash's success. This has to do with ActiveX and how it displays content. Microsoft foolheartedly coded in a patented method and they got taken to court over it -- the other side, Eidos or something like that, won -- and now every website that uses ActiveX to display content in Internet Explorer (read: Flash, Quicktime, etc) needs to be clicked once before the media becomes interactive.

It's a crappy deal for everyone, Microsoft included. This will just drive more people to download Firefox and other alternate browsers.

What "patented method?" From the reading of the pattent, Eolas didn't specifiy a technique. They patented the concept of automatically running multimedia. They're pattent squatters, pure and simple. It would be like the person who pattented the technique of "inducing your cat to exercise" by using a laser pointer to play with it (yes, this is a real patent! http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=5443036.WKU.&OS=PN/5443036&RS=PN/5443036 ) demanding royalties everytime someone did that.

[Cota]

I agree with Colin!
and I agree with you.

[sophistikat]

i've been doing some research and here's a link with work-around(s)
http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/04/05/flash-interaction-disabled-in-internet-explorer/

[smartie_on_computer]

i don't get it, flash is a simple dynamic movie player, so why does microsoft think of it as an attack?

[colfaxrev]

"microsofts experssion" looks like something for CSS coding... it has nothing to do with rich content as far as I can tell!

So I don't understand why you'd say it was an attack on macromedia... unless I'm missing part of what the software does, this seems like an argument made without any real research done.

In other words... do your homework.

[stealthelephant]

in other words do your homework?

read my footers

[colfaxrev]

in other words do your homework?

read my footers
I wasn't talking to you! I was talking to audiowizard who started this thread!

[stealthelephant]

i answered though

[audiowizard]

Sure there are workarounds, but damage has been done.

Millions of web surfers encountered an odd experience with flash websites. Some business owners using Flash websites were upset that their sites were harder to access until being "fixed". They don't want that to happen again. Sure Microsoft's Expression software isn't as good as Flash. Read up all about it here with a blow by blow comparison http://www.flashant.org

But it is a competing product in a tight market, and Microsoft did shake up flash content (if not for you, THEN FOR SOME). I happened to use the javascript workaround before my clients knew anything was up. Good for me, but I know of many others who are out there and their businesses who don't have the funds to keep a full or part-time web developer.

It might not have been an intentionally direct attack on Flash, that I can't tell. Knowing Microsoft's strategy of leverage, I think they knew fully well what they were doing and knew it could potentially turn attention and trust to their Expression software.

[tg]

microsoft had to change the browser because of patent infringement..... they did this years ago... long before expressions came about.

[red penguin]

I've seen this but not tested. Anyone else?

theObjects = document.getElementsByTagName("object");
for(var i = 0; i < theObjects.length; i++)
{
theObjects[i].outerHTML = theObjects[i].outerHTML;
}

Then...just below the last <object> in your HTML page, insert the following Javascript:

<script type="text/javascript" src="ieupdate.js"></script>

[sophistikat]

my client has this ie flash problem right and so i'll test the code later on today red penguin and i'll let you know

[sophistikat]

I've seen this but not tested. Anyone else?

theObjects = document.getElementsByTagName("object");
for(var i = 0; i < theObjects.length; i++)
{
theObjects[i].outerHTML = theObjects[i].outerHTML;
}

Then...just below the last <object> in your HTML page, insert the following Javascript:

<script type="text/javascript" src="ieupdate.js"></script>not only does it work but it improves a script i have the allows you to use transparent png files. btw, the javascript include does not need to be below the object tag it can stay inside <head>; thanks for this penguin

[red penguin]

The only caveat in using this is that it will not pass in any FlashVars. That said, I will be using the deconcept fix for most of my dev work.

ps: Sure it doesn't need to be after the object tag(s)? I haven't tested but the code reads to get all object tags and loop through. Meaning that once the js loads it grabs those objects....but they haven't loaded yet. I suppose one could create a function and use any of the various methods out there to fire at the correct time.

Cheers.

[thumbslinger]

I've been conducting tests with the various methods posted and then just trying others like the 2advanced.com site utilizes.

Seems that specifying Flash player version 6 gets around stuff. It's only version 7 and above that causes most of the problems.

Also, using .flv still doesn't work using the includes 100% consistently.

If you have a straight running animation/loop with no interactivity required by the user, then the Flash file will play even with the little tool tip window appears asking to click to play.

I just found out about all this yesterday so there's still work to do, but I'd like to know what other methods others have used to get flv files to play besides swf files.

[sophistikat]

includes/ieupdate.jstheObjects = document.getElementsByTagName("object");
for(var i = 0; i < theObjects.length; i++)
{
theObjects[i].outerHTML = theObjects[i].outerHTML;
}html page<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
<title>Procure Bids</title>
<!-- include javascripts -->
<script defer="defer" type="text/javascript" src="includes/btns.js"></script>
<script defer="defer" type="text/javascript" src="includes/ieupdate.js"></script>
<script defer="defer" type="text/javascript" src="includes/pngfix.js"></script>
<!-- include stylesheets -->
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="includes/global.css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="includes/tables.css" />
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="includes/content.css" />
<!-- tile bkground -->
<style type="text/css" media="all">
table.bkg {
background-image: url(images/shared/bkg.jpg);
background-repeat: repeat-x;
}
</style>
</head>embed code<!-- start: swf header -->
<table class="swf" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tr>
<td>
<!-- embed flash movie -->
<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000"
codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0"
width="100%"
height="80"
id="swf"
align="middle">
<param name="allowScriptAccess" value="sameDomain" />
<param name="movie" value="register.swf" />
<param name="loop" value="false" />
<param name="menu" value="false" />
<param name="quality" value="high" />
<param name="scale" value="noscale" />
<param name="salign" value="lt" />
<param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff" />
<embed src="register.swf"
loop="false"
menu="false"
quality="high"
scale="noscale"
salign="lt"
bgcolor="#ffffff"
width="100%"
height="80"
name="swf"
align="middle"
allowScriptAccess="sameDomain"
type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" />
</object>
<!-- display flash menu -->
<script language="JavaScript">
function activateTab() {
window.document.swf.SetVariable("js", "1");
}
setTimeout("activateTab()", 100);
</script>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<!-- end: swf header-->red penguin: this is my html page; works perfectly

[thumbslinger]

THanks, that finally worked..

[theadjunkie]

here is the fix:

<!--[if gte IE 6]><SCRIPT language="javascript" src="repairembed.js"><![endif]--></SCRIPT>


<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0" width="780" height="580" id="chris" align="top">
<param name="allowScriptAccess" value="sameDomain" />
<param name="movie" value="chris.swf" /><param name="menu" value="false" /><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff" /><embed src="chris.swf" menu="false" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="780" height="580" name="chris" align="top" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" />
</object>


<!--[if gte IE 6]></NOSCRIPT><![endif]-->


There is only to lines that has to sandwich the flash object code.
Now open up your notepad and insert the following code......


document.write("<NOSCRIPT class=fix>")

window.onload = function() {
elems=document.getElementsByTagName("noscript");
for(i=elems.length-1;elem=elems[i];i--) {
if(elem.className=="fix")
elem.outerHTML = elem.innerHTML
}
}


Save the file as repairembed.js
and plant it in the root directory of you webpage done.

The adjunkie does it again.......

[red penguin]

The adjunkie needs to learn how to use the [ as ] / [ code ] tags...Perhaps then I can read it.

@sophistikat: Looks a little kludgy (using a timeout) but if it workie, it workie! And I'm curious to know how this 'fix' works. I mean. All the code says is to loop through and set the object's outerHTML to itself.

And you are loading that JS before the object tag even gets there! I was under the impression that it had to be loaded after...

So I'll copy this and test in time. Thanks...

[sophistikat]

@sophistikat: Looks a little kludgy (using a timeout) but if it workie, it workie!sorry.. the timeout has nothing to do with the 'fix' its just a different script that sends flash a variables (should not have added that in

[miiiriam]

I looked all over the place for the java script code referenced here:
src="ieupdate.js"

:confused:

[sophistikat]

I looked all over the place for the java script code referenced here:
src="ieupdate.js"

:confused:ieupdate.jstheObjects = document.getElementsByTagName("object");
for(var i = 0; i < theObjects.length; i++)
{
theObjects[i].outerHTML = theObjects[i].outerHTML;
}

[jedicoder]

But that is not a Microsoft tool. So would that still make Microsoft against Flash?

[miiiriam]

So the js really consists only of those few lines. .. I don't have a clue how it works but it seems to do it. Thanks sophistikat.

[icemart525]

New problems came when I used this fix, the banner won't load and now the whole movie won't load in my local server, but it's working fine in the remote server.