New Site Design - First chance for constructive criticism

[Jesse]

Attached is a shot of the (beta) site layout which will hopefully go live this weekend. Actually it's been running for a few weeks on our new, killer server but we've wanted to perfect it before swapping over. Now we can't be stuffed; the current (old) server is really struggling with peak loads and we don't want you to all suffer with poor speeds.

The left column will have more little 'panels' which have links to the five most recent jobs, forum posts, latest movies, etc. We're going to make them customizable, so you can select the forum you're interested in, maybe filter jobs by location, etc.

We're also going to ad a logo; yes we know it doesn't have one at the moment. We need a new one...

Constructive criticism welcome. It'll be a work in progress, so you should see it live in 3 - 4 days, and you'll notice us tweaking it -- possibly quite a lot -- thereafter.

Some things this shot doesn't show you:

Auto code highlighting for ActionScript, PHP and more
Links within PHP code to PHP.net documentation of the functions, and we're working on the same for ActionScript
Every tutorial can be connected to others to make a "Series" of articles
Nice printer friendly versions of everything
You can add articles to your "To read" and "Favorites" lists.
It's all dynamic which means authors can create new content all the time.
Most of the content is RSS syndicatable
Lots of other things, but none of them will go live if I don't stop posting this and get back to work on them :)

[Jesse]

Oh here's a contentious topic which we'd value your opinion on...

The forums: fixed width (like the rest of the site) or variable width? I just got a 24 inch monitor and I see why people wouldn't like fixed width sites. For the tutorials it makes sense (studies show it aids learning) but for the forums we could be more flexible... Strok suggested having two designs: one fixed width, one not and users can set their preference via their User CP. This is for the forums only... I'll add a poll on the topic.

[Cota]

Looking good....Love the new system...sorry I havent been tinkering with it as much as I should have...but things are looking great for the future

[Flash Gordon]

My vote is go with whatever you and Stok think! Buy the looks of things, whatever you do with be incredible! Go with your gut! I trust your judgement.

:eek:

[Ruben]

Wow man.. the new design looks NEAT! I'm really eager to see it in action...

As for criticism, I don't have much.. Perhaps the google-ads are a bit out of place. Does the addtofavorites functionality work in other browsers (firefox for instance) as well, 'cause that'd be cool ;). Finally, you mentioned links in actionscript, will the links be to the livedocs definiton (which is kind of slow/heavy in my opinion) or to the online actionscript dictionary definition?

Oh and one last thing, do you think it'd be a nice idea to let users send in proposals for the site logo? ..or turn it into some kind of competition, could be cool I think...


But altogether; site looks awesome, you certainly made me curious..

:rolleyes: - Ruben

[Cota]

As far as size goes, I'd let the user have that option in the CP.

I also like Rubens idea...

[CyanBlue]

Looks great... Can't wait to see it in action... ;)
I'd say post it up as fast as you guys can and see how it goes and tweak it when necessary... ;)

[Flash Gordon]

Originally Posted by Flash Gordon
"So who shot JFK? Where is Waldo? Who built the pyramids?":D

[Jesse]

Finally, you mentioned links in actionscript, will the links be to the livedocs definition (which is kind of slow/heavy in my opinion) or to the online actionscript dictionary definition?

Oh and one last thing, do you think it'd be a nice idea to let users send in proposals for the site logo? ..or turn it into some kind of competition, could be cool I think...

Not sure where we'll link yet. I like the idea of something like LiveDocs where people can post good usage examples of the function, etc. I was thinking this is where a Wiki could come in on ActionScript.org but then we'd probably just be splitting off information which should probably remain central (on LiveDocs since they started first) for the benefit of the community.

I almost want to make it link to a "Jump off" page for each function. The jump-off page would have links to: official documentation, LiveDocs, samples of that function in use in the AS.org library, threads on AS.org functions, etc.

As for the logo competition, it's something we've considered. Strok's working on something now but that doesn’t mean users can’t make prototypes/suggestions.

[CyanBlue]

Not sure where we'll link yet. I like the idea of something like LiveDocs where people can post good usage examples of the function, etc. I was thinking this is where a Wiki could come in on ActionScript.org but then we'd probably just be splitting off information which should probably remain central (on LiveDocs since they started first) for the benefit of the community.
I am not much of the LiveDocs fan for several reasons... The main problem is that the LiveDocs in MM site is not so much searchable... (At least to me that is...) and it is somewhat hard to navigate through if you do not know what you are looking for... I think Wiki will work better as long as it is used/structured wisely... ;)
I almost want to make it link to a "Jump off" page for each function. The jump-off page would have links to: official documentation, LiveDocs, samples of that function in use in the AS.org library, threads on AS.org functions, etc.
Sounds great... Make it happen, Jesse... :D

[[Sx]]

I think that the best way would be a combo of LiveDocs with actionscript.org's internal snippets/comments system. Quite nice example of how good reference can look like is php.net - you can grab the base reference of LiveDocs and then add some heavy-moderated section bellow for comments/snippets that shows various usages of current class/method or workarounds of it's limits.

Also, online compiler/tester can come as a nice addon to the LiveDocs where users could test the examples as they read them without having to copy/paste and switch to Flash just to see how it works. I was always wondering why MM haven't included such a feature within their internal Flash Help system (probably because of their extra-slow compiler) - it's far easier for users to learn without taking their eyes off the reference.

As for variable/fixed size, I guess I was the only one voting for variable - don't know about researches, but I find it useless to fixate the size and wasting valuable space on the screen. I find it much easier to read when I have everything on the screen than to scroll. Same goes for tutorials, I really don't see a point (except faster loading time) in having them splitted on multiple pages forcing users to open those pages in different tabs or to go back/forward through the pages - I find it quite distractive. Even if some large sections can make a real hell for navigation through one-paged tutorials, that can be easily solved by making a section-folding system. Btw. is 1024x768 base resolution these days? I can't remember when I was using such low resolution - must be in the 90's... But I guess you know more about average resolution of visitors of actionscript.org from the stats...

Just my 2 cents...

[Flash Gordon]

Btw. is 1024x768 base resolution these days?That is a good question. I did loaded a swf in my sig once where I tracked user's browser to a database on my server. It turned out FF and IE was about equal. I didn't bother to track screen res...I got a new little project now.

BTW, i think one long page might be better than 3 of 4 pages too. Make if need be, "break" the pages up with something visual, but I think I like that idea as long as the flash examples don't get so heavy that it hammers my CPU just to view a tutorial. FK.com kills my PC just by visiting it. :(

[[Sx]]

BTW, i think one long page might be better than 3 of 4 pages too. Make if need be, "break" the pages up with something visual, but I think I like that idea as long as the flash examples don't get so heavy that it hammers my CPU just to view a tutorial. FK.com kills my PC just by visiting it. :(

Well, there is a perfectly good solution for that which you can see on plenty of Java-tutorial pages (given that Java takes a lot more resources than Flash) - a small sendbox .swf that on user request loads the desired .swf.

[Colin Campbell]

Not sure if I like the scan lines for the background or not. Either way, they seem much to harsh for my eye. You should either lessen their effect, or remove them completely and add a soft drop shadow effect. That would go a long way, IMO, in drawing attention towards the content, rather than the background, because as it stands right now, the darkest color and most contrasting area is in the background.

[Ruben]

Perhaps Colin's right, I'm still a bit hesitant, but maybe it'd be better if the background would make a bit less of a contrast with the content-part..

I almost want to make it link to a "Jump off" page for each function. The jump-off page would have links to: official documentation, LiveDocs, samples of that function in use in the AS.org library, threads on AS.org functions, etc.If by 'jumpoff-page' you mean a definition-page (for every element, function, whatever) with links to the official docs, then I think it's a great idea..

:rolleyes: - Ruben

[gromit]

Just wanted to say that it looks great and I look forward to the launch...oh...and my vote is for fixed width.

Nice one Jesse! :)

[snapple]

Whats the big space across the top for?

I would also worryt hat it's a little too stylized and could become dated a too quickly - its gone for the 'new media, slick, minimalist' design - which is nice, but not always long lasting - especially for a site which has lots and lots of content.

Menu bar looks a lot better though - really stands out, unlike the hidden one we have now.

Regards, snapple :]

[Jesse]

I asked Strok that too, about the space, so he removed it, and it looked odd without something there... I mean, normally a site would have ads in a spot like that, but we're thinking we probably won't because they are low value nowadays as ads go.

Anyway, it needs something there... with no space it just looks strange!

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

I like it. Not a real big fan of the google ads but Firefox already removes google ads from websites anyways. From what I've heard google ads are on the current site, and I haven't seen those at all. :)

[Cota]

P.S. Stroks picture........still toooooooo big...

[McGiver]

I'm not sure what to think about the scanlines, they are like the Lense Flare effect in Photoshop. After some time they just look cheap :/

Plus I don't really realize what site I'm looking at.
How about an actionscript.org logo somewhere on top?

[Ruben]

Jesse, very important point to take into consideration (in my opinion) regarding the new site, will the 'old' url's still work? For example, if the new url for the variables 101 tutorial (http://www.actionscript.org/tutorials/beginner/variables/index.shtml) would be NEWDOMAIN.org/tutorials/Variables-101/, would ActionScript.org/tutorials/beginner/variables/index.shtml redirect the user to NewDomain.org/tutorials/Variables-101/?

This is especially important for not losing potential users that bookmarked tutorials ages ago and might come back in the future.. It's even more important for links to tutes in old posts on the forums..

- Ruben

[Jesse]

Yup, thought about it. We're dealing with that as bets we can. For the majority of URLs we will set up redirects so that people are automatically forwarded to the new URLs. We need it for Search Engine listings as much as anything; can't have all the links from them broken.

[Jesse]

Plus I don't really realize what site I'm looking at.
How about an actionscript.org logo somewhere on top?
We haven't finalized our new branding yet... but we WILL have a logo, of course :) It'll go in once we know what it'll look like ;)

[Ruben]

Yup, thought about it.Good to hear that, url-design is one of the most important things when structuring (and especially restructuring) a website, viva la url-design!

;) - Ruben

[elemeition]

Hey, I'm finding the font a bit hard to read.

The lines dont bother me - they look cool,
but the fact that the text is really thin makes it hard for me to focus and read quickly.

I'm on safari, and it's shocking on the eyes.

Also the orange is really bright, you should probably have some sort of orange, or faded orange thing for your headings, etc, just to balance it out.

heiracy is a bit funny. Page 1 of 3 is the first thing i read, rather than the tute heading.

Otherwise, looks neat :)

Ps, sorry if im picky - graphic designer by trade

[designeri]

Hello Everyone, :p

I love the work ActionScript is doing and i have used the resources here many a time. Hence i decided to give something back. I have designed a couple of logos for ActionScript site - if you find these useful, i will be happy.

Please check the following link

http://as.designer-i.com

Also, please check the attached image.

Let me know if i can help. :rolleyes:

Best Regards
Suryakiran
Designer-i Solutions (http://www.designer-i.com)

[Jesse]

Hey Suryakiran,

Thanks for your efforts; that's really good of you!

We're quite keen on the first logo. We'd probably have to be changed slightly to match the colors we're workign with a little (either make the logo a little more like the red-orange we're using, or change the red-orange we're usign to match the logo better).

I've done some playing around with it and you can see some shots of it in action here. Note each picture is about 700Kb. Also note the JPG compression has bent some of the colors a little.

Next to the divider (http://actionscript.org/tmp/Mid_left.jpg)
In the left menu (http://actionscript.org/tmp/Menu_left.jpg)
In the left meny with no divider bar (http://actionscript.org/tmp/Menu_left_no_bar.jpg)


I like the last one... Anyone else got a preference?

Also, Suryakiran, do you see any way in which the "org" element of our URL could be incorporated into the logo?

[Cota]

Honestly, I dont think that logo fits the site. Just another graphic guys opinion..sorry to offend.

[oldnewbie]

I like the 3rd one also! And agree you should match colors...

Maybe add the ORG as a soft backdrop?

[Flash Gordon]

"last one" vote here. That grey block is just weird with nothing in it.

[Ruben]

I'm sorry, but I'm with Cota, I don't think either of the designs suits the site..

- Ruben

[Jesse]

For those who are less keen on it: Can we get more of an idea of waht would look more like it? Or failing that, what it is specifically that makes this logo not work?

[Ruben]

Well I'm not that much of a logo-designer, but I'll try to work on something.. As for the proposals, I reckon it kind of lacks identity, the prime aspect for a logo should be that it stands out, represents the identity of the company/organisation/community/people behind it.. I don't feel it does that.

- Ruben

[designeri]

Hello Guys,

Thank you for your response.

I agree that neither of these logos easily fit the context of a programmer's site and it lacks a good identity. Actually, I attempted to make the logo exciting and attractive (by using red color) especially since the word "action" can also mean "there is a lot of action happening on this site!".

I am ready to work on improving it, since all of us want a better logo for this site. I will post another couple of logos very soon, possibly with '.org' tag.

Regards
Suryakiran

[Cota]

I wasnt trying to put down your work, it just doesnt fit the site. I will try to toss some examples together myself before the finals in Color Wars (if you guys have read it go find my color wars thread!)

[Jesse]

I was trying to put down your work
You mean wasn't right? ;)

I'm fine with it if ppl don't dig the logo. I like it personally; while it looks a bit unlike what I would expect for the site, I just put that down to me not being used to it. Then again, aesthetic appreciation is prolly one of my lower ranked skills so I'll default to the designers' opinions for some part.

Appreciate everyone's offers to make mock-up suggestions. I'm determined to launch (with or without an icon) within two weeks because we have to be up and running before I go on holiday!

[Cota]

hahaahha..yes I meant "wasnt"...wow that probably made me sound bad..I will try to have a mock up for you tonight.

[Jesse]

Any word on these potential design examples... ?

[Cota]

yes, on the way. Sorry, I was distracted with issues with my children.

[Ruben]

Jesse, I'm currently working on something too.. It should be done this weekend or at least by monday..

:) - Ruben

[designeri]

Hello,

Sorry for the delay, I was stuck with something else. Here are a couple of new logos for ActionScript.org!

http://as.designer-i.com

Ideas and opinions welcome :-)

Suryakiran

[Jesse]

@all - No apologies necessary.

@designeri - More good stuff.

@all - Many thanks. Will wait until say Monday, then get some peer feedback on everything posted.

[TCA-eX]

After some hours of work for the ActionScript.org logo, here (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/index.html) is the result.

The design is fully made in Macromedia Flash 8. On the above linked page are three links: the first link opens the swf file (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/l_swf.html) of the logo, the second link opens the jpeg file (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/l_jpg.html) of the logo and the third one opens a jpeg image (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/il_jpg.html) showing the logo integrated in the beta layout of the site.

A suggestion is to load a swf file representing the logo if the user who is accessing the ActionScript.org site has installed the required flash plug-in and a jpeg or png file otherwise.

A short description of the logo:
1. The colors used are in concordance with the color design of the beta layout of the new site.
2. At the first word of the logo, ‘action’, I made a game of words underlined, suggested by the way the colors are used, so it also results ‘act | on script’.
3. Regarding to the swf animation, as can be seen, the rotation of the four triangles is influenced by the mouse position, if the mouse is on the left side of them they spin anticlockwise direction and of course right side, clockwise direction, if the distance between the mouse and them is smaller the rotation speed is decreased and reverse: bigger distance, increased speed.
4. And a small philosophy (this point can be jumped): the circle was known in the antiquity as the symbol of perfection, the circle used in the logo represents this but its dissipating influence, suggested by the four triangles, is limited by the curve line which equilibrate the design and cut the amount of perfection which is involved in the action, the curve line and shape do not leave a clean touch between the circle and the word action, because action also involves fun, play, on one side and contradiction, disagreement on the other side, which are not perfect. The perfection is usual the idea, the idea is to make this site perfect, the idea is to make a perfect logo, and so on, but the results are, maybe all the time, different. So the circle is the perfection, the perfection is the idea and this idea, that is in every mind, tries to land somewhere, to have a finality, to have something tangible, to have by its nature an influence to others, it starts to spin, but only if it is set out by someone. ActionScript.org is a big and great base of knowledge, of information, of interesting things, makes ideas spin and maybe one day they will land.

Any near future reshapes, any minor changes that maybe I will do to the logo, can be found at the same links. (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/index.html)

Any feedback is welcomed.

I hope to give by this a good hand.

[Cota]

After seeing that logo..I'm not even going to bother finishing what I was working on. Thats the one right there. Great job TCA! Jesse, we've found out logo....!

[Jesse]

@TCA-Ex - Thanks very much for a (clearly) strong effort to produce a sample. I like it.

@Others - Can I get some opinions about the examples put forward by TCA - I honestly have very little artistic eye for these things... Constructive critisism will be welcomed, I'm sure.

[Cota]

I'm telling, this is the one. I liked it so much I stopped and deleted the one I was working on.

[MichaelxxOA]

I have to agree, I think that it looks fantastic, really gives it an edge. I love the idea of using the orange and the lines in the back.. although I think that the lines in the background could be alot lighter to make them a little less distracting, it's kinda hard to digest what's going on with the page. Again just personal preference.

Take care.
Michael

[oldnewbie]

Only fault I could find in it is that the mid-point for the rotation direction and speed, seems to presently be between the C and the T (rather than somewhere between ACTION & SCRIPT... Thus it never spins as fast counterclockwise, than it does clockwise...

But overall it looks very nice!

[designeri]

Excellent Logo! Very creatively designed.

Best Regards
Suryakiran

[Ruben]

I'm not gonna continue working on a logo either, I reckon we should go with tca-ex's design..

:) - Ruben

[Cota]

I know, it really just grabs your attention doesnt it

[Ruben]

Huh? ..what? (short attention-span here ;))

:p - Ruben

[TCA-eX]

Thank you for the appreciations and for the suggestions!

According to the suggestion wrote by MichaelxxOA, I decreased the alpha level of the middle color of the curve line from 50% to 25%, consequently, now, the line looks lighter.

Looking at the second proposal made by oldnewbie about the mid-point for the direction and speed, I changed it, initially this mid-point was in the middle of the circle or, how oldnewbie said, somewhere between the letters C and T, now this point is in the center of the logo, between the words ACTION and Script, as a result the rotation speed is equal in both directions, anticlockwise respectively clockwise.

All these changes can be found at the same links. I list them again:
i. home (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/index.html), the page where are group the following three links;
1. logo swf file (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/l_swf.html), the logo saved in swf format;
2. logo jpeg file (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/l_jpg.html), the logo saved in jpeg format;
3. int_logo jpeg file (http://www.tca-ex.go.ro/as/il_jpg.html), a suggestion about where to place the logo on the new site.

[Jesse]

Oh yeah! Great work TCA-ex.

Anyone got final suggestions before we go with this?

[oldnewbie]

Maybe some logo credit recognition & compensation for TCA-ex?

[Jesse]

I'd like to discuss it with Strok but it was always my intention that a little compensation would be given to whomever contributed the logo we go with...

[oldnewbie]

Reminds me of limbo dancing, a few years back...

How little (low) can you go? :D

[MichaelxxOA]

I agree, and honestly like the new look... excited for this all to finally come together.

Michael

[Cota]

This logo fits in completely with the new site. Glad most of us are in agreement.

[Jesse]

We're working with TCA-eX in the background to finalize this... stay tuned.

[squadjot]

i would love to see some kind of flash implementation.. =) ... either logo..or navigation..or both.. this is a actionscript community..why not use it then? =)

[Ruben]

Hey Jesse, when will the new design be applied to the whole of the site?

- Ruben

[Cota]

Cant wait for this thing to go live...