View Full Version : Encryption
CadChick
06-11-2006, 08:25 PM
I've done quite a bit of reading lately on encryption and just wanted to get some people's opinions. I want to do everything possible to make it, at least difficult, to steal the content. what do all of you think about Amayeta SWF Encrypt or are there other tools that you've used that work better--less expensive--etc. All comments welcome.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 03:04 AM
someone has to have an opinion on best methods/procedures for SWF Encryption. Thoughts? Anyone?
icemart525
06-13-2006, 03:21 AM
copyright your movie. :)
CadChick
06-13-2006, 04:21 AM
not "all" comments are welcome :rolleyes:
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 04:27 AM
woah, that was harsh... ?
Personally I haven't seen any good ones, but you can try.
Michael
ok, CadChick....You and Flash Gordon didnt play nice in another post, now you are snapping at someone else. Not a very good way to introduce yourself on the forums. Your topic has been discusses, yes in the past, but it was you have to work with. Not every question has an answer. Please, do not snap out other members, we're all here to help eachother and be a community. icemart was just making a joke.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 04:48 AM
that's why I placed the rolling eyes--in my message--I understood it was a joke and was responding in kind.
You're chastizing me, when my VERY first response on this site was a link to another message of mine?? Quite the welcome wagon.
My post has valid legitmacy. As a test, I took another link that Flash Gordon had posted in response to a question where someone was asking about a specific technique, ran a decompiler and there it was--all the code--all the content in a nice little packaged fla. now I'm not an unethical person and certainly wouldn't post that code but if swf files are going to be out there for heavy duty content--and I'm not talking web banners--then people need to understand how to protect that content. I was under the assumption that this was a forum where professionals go to discuss legtimate issues. Mistaken?
icemart525
06-13-2006, 05:03 AM
not "all" comments are welcome :rolleyes:
ok here's another one, this isn't a joke anymore. :p
obfuscator (http://www.google.com/search?q=actionscript+obfuscator)
;)
CadChick
06-13-2006, 05:16 AM
I have done the google thing and do know what's out there. I also know about writing JavaScript to prevent swfs from caching. I was hoping there were people on this board who were actually using encryption and could comment on it from a business perspective. How well does it do the job, etc. With Flex out there now for RIA's, it's going to be an increasing issue.
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 05:36 AM
What exactly are you trying to protect? Maybe we can make this a thread where this all gets discussed, but just as a warning I haven't seen any good preventions as of yet.
icemart525
06-13-2006, 05:50 AM
looks like you're not here for help.
that's why I placed the rolling eyes--in my message--I understood it was a joke and was responding in kind.
You're chastizing me, when my VERY first response on this site was a link to another message of mine?? Quite the welcome wagon.
My post has valid legitmacy. As a test, I took another link that Flash Gordon had posted in response to a question where someone was asking about a specific technique, ran a decompiler and there it was--all the code--all the content in a nice little packaged fla. now I'm not an unethical person and certainly wouldn't post that code but if swf files are going to be out there for heavy duty content--and I'm not talking web banners--then people need to understand how to protect that content. I was under the assumption that this was a forum where professionals go to discuss legtimate issues. Mistaken?
I was by no means "chastizing" you. I was responding to complaints. By him linking you to another one of your posts, with the same question, he was pointing out that you were cross posting. Not the end of the world, but it is frowned upon. Also the attitude, in which you both conducted yourself.
With all that being said, I would like to think we're professionals, well if you over look the hat thing...We are also a community. Legit issue or not, we try to help. The problem with your particular issue is that its one that is pretty much never going to be solved. Simply because of the delivery method..some one some where is always going to figure out a way to get your code. Which, in the grand scheme of things, isnt the end of the world either. Its the data you want to protect. Adobe (macromedia) will always own the code.
By the way, welcome to forums..we're here to help..
CadChick
06-13-2006, 07:02 AM
right now I'm trying to protect e-learning content. Even though it's a secured site, someone could pay once for the course--they then have all the content and next thing you know it's all over the world. this is one example, as I mentioned with more coming, via Flex, this will continue to be an issue.
I've done a couple tests tonight and am frankly amazed at how easy it is to steal content. the example that another poster was trying to duplicate, took me about 1 min. to get everything. It was the link to webwasp---didn't even need Flash Gordon's attempt to duplicate--I got the original and it was 6K as compared to his 18K. Wonder how long it took him to try to duplicate that process. Now, here's an example of where they are wanting to charge for membership--none of their content is protected.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 07:13 AM
so, my first response was "here look at this"....with a link to my original post. Nice. Noticing that it was the first post--maybe a note saying please delete and bump your previous post would have been more appropriate--with a "and welcome to the site" Lucky I didn't type what I was saying out loud. So my response was well justified. I'm a business owner--not a 20 something playing with Flash on the side. It appears that only a few respond to messages on this site and it's really not an interactive forum. If that's the case, I'll move on.
Now it's extremely late here and I have to be ready to roll again in a few short hours. I'll wait for my peach pie to be delivered from the welcome wagon!
icemart525
06-13-2006, 07:48 AM
20 something playing with Flash on the side is not the opposite of a business owner. :D
jsebrech
06-13-2006, 07:55 AM
As far as encrypting flash content ... why bother? Suppose your site was HTML, there would be no feasible way to protect it. I can and have copied HTML e-learning pages for offline use (no, I didn't send it on, but it annoys me greatly when people try to restrict how I can view the content I paid for). However, your content is automatically protected by copyright as soon as you create it, and if you register the copyright the damages you can claim go up. Legal fees are an issue, but I think that there must lawyers willing to absorb the costs for a legitimate copyright infringement case.
However, if you really want to go this route, I would suggest placing your content not in the flash file, but loading it from the server in the form of an XML file generated by ASP or PHP containing instructions. Copying that to the client would be complicated, because they would have to find a way to redirect the XML files (and all content they link to), and then modify the flash movie so it loads from the previously downloaded XML files. In short, it would be too much effort for J. Random Downloader.
farafiro
06-13-2006, 08:22 AM
FG, Cota, CadChick,...... and all (even myself)
I think we are all grown up so we can leave aside our conflicts and consentrate on business, work, or flash @ least
CadChick
06-13-2006, 02:17 PM
that's like saying because I bought Microsoft Office I can do whatever I want with it--doesn't work that way. Try moving Photoshop to another machine--extremely hard to do. I'm talking about courses that are several hundred dollars--not $25 a piece. When you've got intellectual property like that, you want to protect it. And if SWF is going to become the standard format for delivering content via the web, then there will have to be a way to protect it or companies, governments, military will say thanks but no thanks. And as I've previously mentioned, with the advent of Flex applications, SWF takes on all that more of a prominent role.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 02:22 PM
with all due respect, you jumped into this thread....why? I'm beginning to wonder how many moderators does it take to clutter a thread without providing any content. I think I was sorely mistaken in thinking this was a professional forum with professional flash developers.
jsebrech
06-13-2006, 03:21 PM
Sounds like what you want is a DRM mechanism, like adobe has for PDF, and MS has for lit (e-books). Note that both of these are cracked, and tools are available for easy extraction of all content, so I have come to the opinion that effective absolute content protection on current hardware is unachievable. Maybe you should formulate your question as what uses specifically you want to allow and what uses you want to forbid. Maybe encryption is not the way to go for your purposes.
And CadChick, you should respect people who have contributed hundreds or thousands of useful posts with information to this forum. They have dedicated a sizeable chunk of their life to helping the forum members. What you're doing is like ringing someone's door bell, and then as soon as they have said hello to you complaining you don't like the way they say hello.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 03:34 PM
I appreciate your response and candor. Clearly I will continue to fully investigate the options as the apply to my current situation and the effects it will have on our future Flex development. You and Michael were the only two in this long diatribe who actually took the situation seriously and made even an attempt at a true response.
It would benefit people here to act cordially and professionally and NOT be flippant in their responses--condescending, etc. No one knows who is connected to what organizations and in what capacity. With that said, my experience here has not been a pleasant one and what I take out there into the world regarding ActionScript.org would not be positive at this point in time. That can be taken for what it's worth.
there is no way to protect anything at all
MS is a multibilion dollar company whit 1000's of capabel programers
and windowsXP wasn't even released and it was cracked !
(and windows working on nearly the loves level posible so you need hardware for it to by cracked or probably a virtual machine)
to crack an SWF you have so many points to link in that i can't count them !
you can make it harder to crack it but if some one wana carck it
(and has the ability and equipment) it will by cracked !
and they better your protection they more it will atrackt crackers as a chalange !!!
as i can view it on my computer all data nesesary to view it IS on my computer it's just a question of time/ability to get this data
(in the worsest case i make a screen captur and let an OCR over it)
this the industri just wana over come whit this BLODY F_uck
trusted chip (or what ever they call it now)
but even this (i think) will by cracked
as sone it's there or probably later as the equipment needed to crack this one is going in to the 10,000,000 dollar range
leave it up to a broad to act up like this
CadChick
06-13-2006, 06:25 PM
for making my point that this is NOT a professional group. I will spread the word.
eslacker
06-13-2006, 06:39 PM
IMHO, it just depends on what you're trying to protect. If it's secret missle codes, you're probably best leaving it off The Internet... ;)
If you're just trying to make it more difficult or thwart the average user, I have a process you might be interested in. Please mention whether you truly need encryption, or if you just have content that you don't want to be easily viewable outside it's intended purpose.
HTH.
Ciao,
-Jei.
for making my point that this is NOT a professional group. I will spread the word.
Moreso, we're a friendly group of people who get on here on our free time to answer questions of people in the flash community, not to be berated with snide comments from some lippy broad because she doesn't get the exact answer she wants to hear.
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:07 PM
You're right, we are not professionals... we don't get paid to sit here and professionally solve your problems, you can't EXPECT anything from us, we all tried to sincerely help you, but you picked at the few that pointed out YOUR attitude, I've lost any interest in helping... bye
oldnewbie
06-13-2006, 07:10 PM
leave it up to a broad to act up like this
That post should be deleted...
Not only is he an idiot as Michael as it in his signature (even if that is a hoax...)
woah, that was harsh... ?
Personally I haven't seen any good ones, but you can try.
Michael
__________________
Actionscript Developer :P ...Dope...
_____ is an idiot :P
But he's a male chauvinist pig, and should be seriously warned or even banned!
That post should be deleted...
Not only is he an idiot as Michael as it in his signature (even if that is a hoax...)
woah, that was harsh... ?
Personally I haven't seen any good ones, but you can try.
Michael
__________________
Actionscript Developer :P ...Dope...
_____ is an idiot :P
But he's a male chauvinist pig, and should be seriously warned or even banned!
Oh please get over yourself and this political correctness, I'd respond to anyone who acted like this be it male or female. When people genuinely try to help on a forum they shouldnt be berated with snide comments as the people on this forum were. Whether the person be male or female, theyre still lippy nerds
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:13 PM
ah, just get over it, she's gone... and I'm sure she won't be coming back, not that anyone wants attitude here.
ps- banned like you on flashkit?
oldnewbie
06-13-2006, 07:18 PM
Oh please get over yourself and this political correctness, I'd respond to anyone who acted like this be it male or female.
You could of made your point without using the term broad!
Curious how some of you get by which such posts, when I get bashed for much less abusive comments and certainely more amusing ones!
there are no good ones, and i doubt there will be. swfs are decompilable and will be for the foreseeable future.
to avoid folks from paying once and gettting the content and spreading it around. you may think about attaching the flash content to somesort of db, so the content is actually driven dynamically.
this way when the user opens the initial swf they dont get any of the real content unless they pass thru some sort of authentication process.
regardless.... it will not stop a determined theif.
if your content is worth stealing, it will be stolen..... it happens to all software, cds, dvd etc. around the world.
sorry for the rough start for you here at as[org]. hope the experience improves.
cheers.
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:20 PM
Maybe it's the amount of posts, that resemble this, of yours?
;) Play nice kids
Curious how some of you get by which such posts, when I get bashed for much less abusive comments and certainely more amusing ones!
You sure do pat yourself on the back a lot. It's good to know you can judge your own comments as 'acceptable' and others as 'not acceptable'
Who are you anyway? Not to mention you don't even know what context i use broad in ... which is usually when a female is being lippy or snide as she was... just like you called me an idiot... same difference guy
I think you just get your jollies by being dramatic in forums
red penguin
06-13-2006, 07:24 PM
please stop reporting this post. wtf, people. chill.
newblack
06-13-2006, 07:33 PM
yes, it's very important to not be sexist, men and women being so similar and all. it'd be like me not pointing out for about the third time that canada is leading the world in being just north of the united states.
oldnewbie- when did you turn into the US government? honestly. a little more bill maher and a little less dick ashcroft please...
what's up michael, you sexy thing. i'll catch up with you soon.
cheers,
newblack ( yes that's really my name )
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:38 PM
Drink less Drew? ;) I mean newblack... talk to you soon.
newblack
06-13-2006, 07:45 PM
Drink less Drew? ;) I mean newblack... talk to you soon.
you've just put my entire family at risk, jackass. and by family i mean my single malt cellar. and by risk i mean the game of global domination. and by you, I mean:
*edited*
i just ****ing laughed out loud at work
you can ask michael, he heard me :confused: :confused:
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:49 PM
crap.... now everyone knows I live in LA... with 30million other people, good luck finding me
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:49 PM
Now everyone knows I work with Eric... so gay, you guys are horrible at keep things on the DL
omg he lives with me too
and hes wearing a black shirt today
:eek: :eek: :eek:
newblack
06-13-2006, 07:52 PM
omg he lives with me too
and hes wearing a black shirt today
:eek: :eek: :eek:
lemme guess, ac/dc...
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 07:58 PM
not today.. you guys are being a little rude, no? ;)
newblack
06-13-2006, 07:59 PM
nope, that's just you being salty balls
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 08:03 PM
haha, you win
CadChick
06-13-2006, 08:28 PM
thanks for pointing out the level of sophistication and maturity on this site. If you didn't have a clue about SWF Encryption, then you should have just stayed out of this thread and kept the locker room banter for the playground.
Listen, you've heard plenty about swf encryption.
What it comes down to is that it's not fail safe, and in most cases doesn't really work at all. The best you can do is obfuscate your code, and use one of the swf encryptors that is out there, cross your fingers and hope for the best. This has been explained to you on multiple occasions in this thread, and not once have you given a kind word to the people that have offered a helping hand, only a barrage of accusations to everyone else.
You shouldnt be storing sensitive information in an application that can be decompiled anyway, keep your data and logic seperate.
you can't encript an SWF at all as the player doesn't suport the play back of an encripted SWF and the SWF don't have the level of access to encript it self
all solutions on the market like "SWF encript" not cripting anithing att all
but
just put a few illegal commands in on which comune decompilers sux
and the player is still plays it
If you didn't have a clue about SWF Encryption, then you should have just stayed out of this thread
as there is no such thing nobody will have a clue abouth it !
newblack
06-13-2006, 08:45 PM
thanks for pointing out the level of sophistication and maturity on this site. If you didn't have a clue about SWF Encryption, then you should have just stayed out of this thread and kept the locker room banter for the playground.
*edited*
there's something uniquely consistent in wanting an impossible answer and being drunk on your insipid accusations. lighten up.
with absolute certainty, your swf is not worth encrypting. i say that both with earnest intention and apathy. please consider why you want to encrypt, then, with a foul shot of humility, consider who would waste their time decrypting your file.
there's something uniquely consistent in wanting an impossible answer and being drunk on your insipid accusations. lighten up.
with absolute certainty, your swf is not worth encrypting. i say that both with earnest intention and apathy. please consider why you want to encrypt, then, with a foul shot of humility, consider who would waste their time decrypting your file.
omFg u r teh s3x1st
CadChick
06-13-2006, 08:48 PM
there were very few comments in this thread that actually addressed the issue of software encryption at all-to those people who did, I gave thanks. There seemed to be people wanting to comment here who CLEARLY don't have a clue what they are talking about and don't have any experience with software encryption and therefore shouldn't have been commenting--period. and your "broad" comments--while I'm sure funny to your 20 something pals here--really has no place in a professional forum. I have very strong ties in the technology sector and I made an error in judgement in thinking that this was a place to have a professional dialog with industry professionals--but clearly this site does not aspire to the type of clientele I was envisioning. I will take this subject up elsewhere. But when I'm asked and I speak to professional organizations on these subjects--ActionScript.org will be dismissed as a juvenile site overrun by a bunch of wannabes.
Psh, you're speaking to developers who work at some of the biggest firms in the nation.
P.S. I am currently picking my nose at one of the biggest firms in the nation.
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 08:53 PM
I'm not one to usually speak up... but, the error was not what you thought, but how you approached it. I have absolutely NO problems helping anyone here, and I know my fair share about encryption, and I work for THE leading company for Flash development, www.schematic.com, yet for some odd reason you think that it's our job to help you, I offered my help a few times, and I don't even think you read it.
Anyway, as for not being industry professionals...
Me - Schematic
Eric - Schematic
Drew - Fantasy Interactive/Showtime
Chad - Evil Arts
Along with everyone else, like Xeef... 25 years or more experience.
It's not in how much we do/do not know, it's in how you approached asking for our help. Bye.
Michael
CadChick
06-13-2006, 08:54 PM
with all due respect, I sincerely doubt that. they wouldn't be spending all day posting useless messages on a forum, now would they?
newblack
06-13-2006, 08:55 PM
No YOU Listen
lol
But when I'm asked and I speak to professional organizations on these subjects--ActionScript.org will be dismissed as a juvenile site overrun by a bunch of wannabes.
clearly, you have a flawlessly discerning mind... intelligent folks like yourself form opinions from silly (post-answer) banter. i've known enough 'high-ups' to know titles mean nothing. swim in it, sister.
newblack
06-13-2006, 08:56 PM
P.S. I am currently picking my nose at one of the biggest firms in the nation.
omg, hilarious
CadChick
06-13-2006, 09:11 PM
if you read through my posts I actually gave credit to you as being only one of two people who actually responded to the question at hand. The other posts were totally irrevelant divel that added nothing to the discussion by people who clearly only knew about encryption peripherally if at all. and boys, I deal with Fortune 500 companies--that list did not impress me. AND I have a relationship with Adobe that I will not relate any further than that.
Truly, if you go back through both this thread and the one I closed--the approach by the so-called moderators was anything but professional and courteous. And yes, when I feel I'm being approached confrontationally, I will respond in kind. Turn this site into whatever you want, but if the powers that be want this to be an educational site for professionals than the approach and the conversation needs to be altered.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 09:14 PM
I've got a magnifying glass if you need to borrow it!! :D :D
newblack
06-13-2006, 09:23 PM
I've got a magnifying glass if you need to borrow it!! :D :D
i really hate to say this, but- i don't follow
Flash Gordon
06-13-2006, 10:05 PM
she is trying to say you have a tiny weenie :p But she isn't very good at jokes.
Incase anyone wants to see look here: http://actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=108385
It is obvious that CadChick isn't really looking for help and she is just out-right mean spirted. I gave her 3 good threads/articles and all she could do was whine about how inadequate those post were. I think the kirupa atricle is excellent.
Now instead of whining, she could get her fancy company of Adobe (yeah right :rolleyes: ) to buy a any software that does obfuscation and run some test her self, just like Michael does but using FLASM to figure out code comparison for stuff like switch vs if(). Then after she failed to successful decompile the application, she could nicely (yeah right :rolleyes: ) as for some people her to test here security.
In response to AS[org] not being professional yada yada yada, take it for what it is worth, but if you are constantly fighting with people, maybe the problem isn't everyone else?
[I hope all these post get deleted. This thread just isn't good for anyone. If a mod doesn't do it I suggest cadchick delete this and the other thread and tries again with a fresh attitude or simply go to flashkit.com kirpua.com or webwasp or any number of other forums]
newblack
06-13-2006, 10:12 PM
she is trying to say you have a tiny weenie :p But she isn't very good at jokes.
but there's no basis for that, and it's certainly not what she said last night.
CadChick
06-13-2006, 10:35 PM
this childishness from all of you is really beyond the pale. I suggest you have a forum discussion on professionalism and business ethics. Clearly your modus operandi is when you don't have a freakin clue about a subject--attack the poster. I was hoping for commentary from individuals who knew at least as much as I do on the subject, and in it's CURRENT form, if not more---clearly that is no one here. Best of luck to all of you---I am confident our paths will never cross.
MichaelxxOA
06-13-2006, 11:16 PM
sorry was at lunch...
I understand that you pointed that out, I was NOT here attacking you as you think I was... You did not handle yourself very well, regardless of whether or not you recognized my post.
Since you're so quick to say we don't know what we're talking about, I suggest you have someone from one of your amazing connections get you an answer, perhaps speak with an engineer from Adobe... when you do find out an answer, I would suggest posting it on a forum, but from what I can tell... it's not likely.
Bye
Watch out guys, shes a personal friend of mike chambers
hah
anyways shes just polluting this forum at this point, and if were so childish, stop replying to us and go use one of your extremely competent tech friends to get the answer
ps. dropping that youre involved with fortune 500 companies wont impress anyone who works in media...
CadChick...first, let me apologize for some of the remarks made by others in this thread. Those comments should have never been posted. I have gone through and edited most of them out, if I have missed any, let me know.
Most days, there is a professional attitude here, and those remarks were by no means professional or even polite. Not to defend them or what they did, but it appeared, notice the use of the word appeared, that you were giving attitude to those just expression their views on the subject.
Now, to the rest of you...I will not ask politely..stop! Speaking about someone's breast, or referring to someone as a "broad" is not acceptable. Most of you know me, like me or not, and know that it will not be tolerated.
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