View Full Version : AS.org knowlegde base
.Bruno
10-24-2006, 06:21 PM
Could one of the moderators please tell me whether it is possible to mark a thread as "solved"? If not, I think this would be a major improvement. I don't mean making it a "sticky".
I am one of the (few?) persons that actually searches related subforums for answers before I post my problem. Instead of browsing through 100s of threads, I think it would be very useful to retrieve a list of threads that have actually contributed to the knowledge base of ActionScript.org .
Thanks
thatblokemike
10-24-2006, 06:23 PM
nice idea
pixelwit
10-24-2006, 10:24 PM
No it's currently not possible. It's something I and others have asked for in the past but there's currently no solution which satisfies both the users and the people who have to maintain the site. If you know of examples where it's been implemented successfully let us know about it and we can bring the topic up again and see where it goes.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
.Bruno
10-24-2006, 11:14 PM
If you know of examples where it's been implemented successfully let us know about it and we can bring the topic up again and see where it goes.
That's the whole point. This isn't something I have come across at any other forum. Here's a chance for AS.org to distinguish itself from the rest. :D
for now you could simply ask the person that started the thread to edit the title to include "solved"...unless one of you guys is an expert at hacking VBulletin..
pixelwit
10-24-2006, 11:54 PM
As.org has had the "chance" to make this improvement in the past but they have not taken that chance because they believe it would prove too difficult or impractical.
I doubt much will change unless implementing a "Solved" tag has gotten easier since the last time they considered it which is why I asked if you knew of a working example. If nobody else is doing it, it may be because the task is too difficult.
Maybe contacting Jesse or Strok will motivate them to come up with a solution but be aware that this isn't the first time it's been brought up.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
.Bruno
10-25-2006, 12:06 AM
I don't know how the source of vBulletin looks like, but I'm sure it's possible to get it done one way or another. Our good friends have announced that they just updated the backbone, so perhaps the code behind this forum has become more flexible.
Flash Gordon
10-25-2006, 01:32 AM
This is the one thing FlashKit.com has going for them: you can actually mark threads [RESOLVED]
http://board.flashkit.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=44
CyanBlue
10-25-2006, 02:08 AM
PHPBuilder has the same functionality...
http://phpbuilder.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=10
I don't think we'll have it implemented any time soon though...
That's actually quite easy to implement. It would require slight modifications to the database and the script it self, and of course design solution for such a thing. I've done this on various 'forum systems'. For example, I've created a similar modification on IPB to allow 'importance rating' (different coloring and positioning) and it was actually quite an easy job. I also made countless modifications on phpBB.
However, the biggest issue in this case might be vBulletin's license terms. On their site you can read following:
If you have a valid licence, you may set up an additional test forum in order to test code, template and database modifications. To make this clear to us and our licence verification procedures, place it in a directory called 'testvb' and be sure to password protect it. It must not be accessible by the general public.
Which may or may not allow modifications, so they should be consulted first. If it's ok with them, then I see no reason why such a feature can't be added. If no one wants to do it, heck, I'll do it when I have enough time to mess with it.
However, since this is my 665th post, I wont post around here soon as I should have something special for my 666th post, purely for historical reasons ;) So if Jesse or Strok wants me to do it, I'll be available on pm/email.
See you guys n' gals in a month or two when I have something to show-off for my 666th post ;)
CyanBlue
10-25-2006, 11:28 AM
Ohhh... Can't wait for your 666th post, Sx... Don't take too long... :)
Yeah, CyanBlue is waitin for 66,666 posts.
well it may be 'easy' to implement from this point forward, but is really impractical, unless we have a volunteer to read thru all 113,685 past threads and mark them [resolved] or not resolved..... any volunteers?
CyanBlue
10-26-2006, 11:36 AM
Well... I don't mind doing it if it is something not in rush mode... Just give me 100 years and I'll do it... :p
Another problem is that any modification that you make to vB needs to be applied again next time you upgrade vB because vB upgrade overwrite whatever changes you have made... :(
pixelwit
10-26-2006, 11:43 AM
well it may be 'easy' to implement from this point forward, but is really impractical, unless we have a volunteer to read thru all 113,685 past threads and mark them [resolved] or not resolved..... any volunteers?
Sure, why start making things better now if it will never be perfect? ;)
Even if nobody modifies any of the old threads the new resolved threads could still add value to the site. Which thread is most likely to answer your question... a new thread marked "Resolved" or an old thread with 20 responses about... oh, I don't know, Art, Politics, the socio-political ramifications of chinchillas in Dubai, or in other words, everything BUT an answer to the question posed? I'm pretty sure I'd pick the thread marked Resolved. But on the other hand, I do love a good socio-political chinchilla debate. ;)
Granted, there may be better answers form the past which aren't marked as resolved but there's nothing stopping me or anyone else from choosing the older unmarked threads. I see it as a win-win situation.
I may not read all 113,000 threads but I'll read quite a few. If all I have to do is check a little box to mark a thread as Resolved, I don't think that would be too tough.
Sorry TG, I didn't mean to grumble at you but, I think this is a good idea and only wish it was implemented a long ago when it was first brought up. Then we'd only have like 50,000 old threads to deal with. ;)
I understand it may be a pain to implement and maintain, but if the people at FlashKit can do it...
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CyanBlue
10-26-2006, 11:50 AM
but if the people at FlashKit can do it...
Yay... That's the spirit... :D
FormerSwinger
10-26-2006, 12:29 PM
']
However, the biggest issue in this case might be vBulletin's license terms. On their site you can read following:
//Lisence crap
Which may or may not allow modifications, so they should be consulted first.
I'm creating a vb powered forum site myself and as far as I'm know the license you quted only limits the usage of an ADDITIONAL forum site. So you're allowed to have only one real forum per license. The modifications you do to the templates are not limited. I'm not sure what's the rule withe the db.
Edit:
Even if the db mods are not allowed you can allways create your own db table that could hold the solved thread ids. Just one simple query and you'd know if the thread is solved.
And I agree with pixelwit. Even if only new threads are marked solved it would be alot better.
Sorry TG, I didn't mean to grumble at you but, I think this is a good idea and only wish it was implemented a long ago when it was first brought up. Then we'd only have like 50,000 old threads to deal with. ;)
your not sorry. your never sorry.... ever since that day when you served my burger up from the ground....
heh. yeah. start it now pix. thats fine. it wont really help the first few months, but will definitely get things rolling after that.
if it is possible to emplement, maybe start with some of the newer technology we discuss here....
i could throw in some really nasty comments now about pixelwit and his love of debate... bah. but the heck with it.
pixelwit
10-26-2006, 04:06 PM
... ever since that day when you served my burger up from the ground.... Hey, why do you think they call it "ground" beef? Besides, dirty burgers taste the best; it's a scientifically proven fact. Wanna debate that? ;)
But still, it's not going to happen unlesss the "powers that be" are up for it and I read in the other thread that they were planning on tweaking the CMS and stuff this weekend so they're probably going to be pretty busy.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
Jesse
10-28-2006, 04:10 PM
The best "version" of this feature I have found after an hour of looking around is this: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=129737 . Sounds like it lets people who posted an issue register it as "Closed" and it will show threads based on which are Open and which are Closed. But it's Closed in the sense that no more work needs to be done; I don't think it actually closes the thread, so no more posts can be made...
How's that sound? We can try it for a while...
That mod closes the thread all together..which is something I thought we were trying to avoid. I dont like the idea of threads being closed.
pixelwit
10-28-2006, 04:42 PM
Staff - "This issue has been resolved! The thread starter may re-open it if he wishes."
Thread Starter - "This issue has been resolved! You may re-open it if you are still having problems."
Other Users - "This issue has been resolved! If you have a similar issue, please create a new thread." (link)
I think it closes the thread as well, but that ~might~ be a good thing.
If the thread is closed and you want to add something to the topic you can still create a new thread and place a link to the old thread as a reference.
If you only mark the thread "Resolved" but don't close it, there's a chance someone might ask further questions but won't get an answer because others think the issue has already been resolved.
I think it would be interesting to see what people thought of the general idea (marking a thread Resolved or Closed) without Jesse and Strok having to do too much code hacking.
I'm not in love with the idea of threads actually being closed or anything, but this looks like it might be worth a try. If doesn't work out, they can just yoink the plug.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
pixelwit
10-28-2006, 11:42 PM
You make a good point.
Shhhh... keep it down. If I start making sense now, people will expect it all the time. ;)
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
thats why I put on the pink hat....
so um... who gets to 'close' this thread, it is resolved now right?
Jesse
10-31-2006, 11:24 AM
Very funny tg :)
I still can't find anything better. Maybe we can get someone to custom hack it out for us, but then I'd need ideas on what the best way to do this is.
My ballpark idea is:
When a thread is resolved the user who posted it can mark it resolved, as can admins. The resolution indicator has to be stored such that it can be a search param (e.g. in the title or something).
The next question is, how do we then deal with someone who posts on a solved thread after it's resolution? See, then it would need to be marked un-resolved again because otherwise people would not read it to help the new person out. But in marking it un-resolved, you're undoing the benefit of having marked it resolved in the first instance.
It's for this reason I think that we'll find the plugin I noted above actually closes threads when they are resolved.... It's kinda catch 22...
pixelwit
10-31-2006, 02:55 PM
If they post in a resolved thread they run the risk of not getting an answer, which in turn will probably get them to post a new 'unresolved' thread.
Even if someone else posts further questions in a resolved thread, the original issue will still ~probably~ be resolved and provide an answer to those searching for one.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CyanBlue
10-31-2006, 03:06 PM
If the question is marked as resolved, it should be closed either by the original poster or by the admin so that the thread cannot be modified later on... and if somebody replies to that thread, it should be done in a new thread with the pointer to the original thread... and probably moderator should take care of that process if not done properly... That's my 2 cents...
Flash Gordon
10-31-2006, 03:48 PM
lets face it....(most) people don't search anyway. I'm don't really think have Jesse go through all this crap it worth it.
Personally, I think what would be a great hack is like at (I'll find the forum later) where if you post a stupid title it won't let you post. I onced in, "need help with CSS" and it wouldn't let me post it because I was too vague. If the forums are going to get hacked, lets fix the issue of people posting [URGENT!!!], and Help the Noob, and I need help, etc... as it is difficult to find issue about setInterval when someone titles the thread "Help me....:("
mooska
10-31-2006, 03:56 PM
Only way probably is to add this text to the "post new thread" page ;)
"Your threads title should be summary of your problem, do not use URGENT, Please help, Ive got problem etc titles !" or smth.
That would be an easy hack :)
CyanBlue
10-31-2006, 04:03 PM
I think people do search the forum more than we think... Lots of people search the forum and find their answer... and they normally post the question with more details if they are not able to find the answer they are looking for...
We can normally tell who's searching the forum or not just by reading their question... ;)
pixelwit
10-31-2006, 04:13 PM
lets face it....(most) people don't search anyway. I'm don't really think have Jesse go through all this crap it worth it...
Let's face it, most people who DO search the forums don't post that many questions which is why you/we don't notice them. Improving the search results to show which threads are resolved can only help matters.
This idea has been brought up a couple times in the past and a few other people have already said it would help filter their search results which is why I'm all for it if it doesn't kill Jesse and Strok (if it kills just one of them then that'd be okay). ;)
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CDHBookingEdge
10-31-2006, 04:19 PM
Just want to chime in there as a Noob (or newbie or what have you LOL) that I for one search (one reason being that I don't think one of my questions has been answered LOL) and also I try put up a title that gives some lead to it. Trying to mention a class or component or some keyword like that in the title for some reader to look at it and say "Ah! Yeah I've done stuff with those before I bet I might have an answer!" Essentially the Title is kind of the "Ad" for your post to try and get people to view it. Then the rest of the post also helps you get a response from those who view it (I must be bad at that latter part LOL).
There's certain kinds of...lacking a better word "etiquette" that we all expect in this day and age people with an understanding of forums and groups (and even e-mails, I mean if you send off an e-mail with a bad subject line there's a good chance the person's not going to be interested in reading that as well.) to be able to do. Unfortunately that seems to not be the case.
Though I've not seen too many of the types that Flash wrote about on here, which is a good sign. Or maybe it's just a sign that my eye and brain automatically shut those out.
Essentially the concept is RTFM, STFF(Search the Freaking Forum) and Make your title make sense. Right?
Christopher
CyanBlue
10-31-2006, 04:35 PM
Um... Are you calling the AS.org freaking forum because today is a halloween??? :p (Just kidding, but I couldn't resist it... :D)
agree i think more folks search than we realize cause they are not asking questions, they are finding answers. so providing a way for more folk to find better answers faster is a good thing.
the problem with that solution cb is that the folks who 1 asked teh question and got the answer, or the folk who answered the question, are not notified that something has been posted to their thread... if they get a notification, then they may be able to hop on and give a quick response.... oh. well we may not be able to get everything we want with this. but as pixelwit said earlier. lets emplement something now to help improve some of our results... we can work on other items later if we get the opportunity.
CDHBookingEdge
10-31-2006, 06:44 PM
LOL to Cyan and a thought to tg. Whenever I post a thread that's a question I try to always subscribe to it. So I get a notification. Wouldn't that at least "quasi-solve" that part of the problem? Although I'm not saying not having some way to mark something as solved/closed isn't a good thing it's got my vote.
right. but if the thread is closed, and no one can post to it, when someone has a question, then a new thread would be created, with a link to the closed thread. anyone subscribed to the original would not be subscribed to the new... unless that was coded into the whole deal.... which was the point i was trying to make.
dang. im not sure anything i just wrote made sense.
tg...nothing you say makes sense...or maybe I just cant read..either way..I dont like the idea of closing a thread.
CDHBookingEdge
10-31-2006, 08:59 PM
Ok let's think here a bit..first off why would the thread be closed? Most probably because the problem had a derived solution right? So your statement of "anyone subscribed to the original would not be subscribed to the new" that's fine. Thread-1 has a question, "How do I blah?" A user comes in and says "You do blah-de-blah." problem/question answered. All subscribers get a post about it. Thread is closed. The ones that needed that solution, now have it. So they don't need to be subscribed to any new thread do they?
Or am I missing the boat here somewhere? LOL
A common thing is people will post a similar question, or a question about that particular thread, days, weeks, months, even years later..in that particular thread...
If the question is marked as resolved, it should be closed either by the original poster or by the admin so that the thread cannot be modified later on... and if somebody replies to that thread, it should be done in a new thread with the pointer to the original thread... and probably moderator should take care of that process if not done properly... That's my 2 cents...
@cdh... it was a long ways back, but my post that is confusing you is in response to this post.
Jesse
11-01-2006, 12:21 AM
If the question is marked as resolved, it should be closed either by the original poster or by the admin
So far as I can tell, this is exactly what that hack I mentioned above does...
I'm still not sure we're any closer to an answer here... but the discussion is interesting....
senocular
11-01-2006, 12:33 AM
no thread should be closed (unless for a really good reason) - other people might have a similar problem or need to expand on or clarify the current solution provided in a "resolved" thread. Modifying the title is all you really would need to do. No point in blocking others out of the thread if the original poster is happy.
CyanBlue
11-01-2006, 01:52 PM
But the problem is that the thread becomes 'unresolved' as soon as somebody asks similar question to the original question... and that pretty much makes the whole 'resolved' idea moot... How can we remedy that without closing the thread???
jjbilly
11-01-2006, 02:56 PM
I have to strongly agree with tg, Cota and Senocular - and I'd say that a resolved issue is not the same as a resolved thread. It can be very useful to ask in a thread when your question is similar to an earlier one; for one thing, as TG says, you're likely to rouse the initial 'expert' with a notification. On the other side, it can also be interesting (and useful) to see a thread you were once involved in come up again with a new spin on an old problem.
(Without introducing a resolved tag - I wonder how good a filtering of results you get if you include search terms like 'thanks!', or maybe 'CB roolz!'.)
outlando
11-01-2006, 03:44 PM
(Without introducing a resolved tag - I wonder how good a filtering of results you get if you include search terms like 'thanks!', or maybe 'CB roolz!'.)
CB does rool
ok. so mark initially resolved threads 'resolved' in the title
mark threads that have been resolved but some one has added a question as 'resolved with issues'. heh.
no thread should be closed (unless for a really good reason)
i couldnt agree with this more.... we need to get rid of the close button. i still see many threads where a person opens a thread and asks a question then has obviously used the 'close' button to 'submit' their thread.... thus closing it and not allowing anyone to post to there question.
jjbilly
11-01-2006, 06:04 PM
ok. so mark initially resolved threads 'resolved' in the title
mark threads that have been resolved but some one has added a question as 'resolved with issues'. heh.
Yep, I'm certainly not suggesting we try to reflect this! I just plain vote against a resolve button. And I would tend to stop people locking other than moderators, too.
CyanBlue
11-01-2006, 06:10 PM
i couldnt agree with this more.... we need to get rid of the close button. i still see many threads where a person opens a thread and asks a question then has obviously used the 'close' button to 'submit' their thread.... thus closing it and not allowing anyone to post to there question.
I think that's two different issues... I do agree that the Close button should be only available to the moderators to stop the users closing the threads intentionally or unintentionally...
But I still insist that the resolved thread should be closed, but it looks like it is just me... I am only saying that because one closed thread with the solution has more value than one open thread with multiple issues and multiple solutions... That could potentially make the new person more confused...
senocular
11-01-2006, 06:19 PM
A resolved issue doesnt mean the thread shouldn't have more traffic. As mentioned, there's always room for thank you's and roolzers and things of the such. Plus someone might come along later and have an updated or alternate solution to add. The topic would still be "resolved" but now just have additional information and additional options.
If there's a new topic in a resolved thread not specific to the original issue, its our job as moderators to identify that and float it to a new thread. :)
pixelwit
11-01-2006, 06:38 PM
Although ordinarily I disagree with anything Senocular says, I think he's on track this one time. :D
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CyanBlue
11-01-2006, 06:53 PM
Um... I guess I'll have to agree if PW agrees with Senocular...
pixelwit
11-01-2006, 06:59 PM
Agreeing with PW is a slippery slope, you may want to reconsider before it's too late. ;)
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
I think that's two different issues...
yep. which is why my post title said 'on a side note'
round and round we go...round and round we go...
Flash Gordon
11-01-2006, 10:31 PM
Let's face it, most people who DO search the forums don't post that many questions which is why you/we don't notice them. Okay you're right which just supports my case that threads like this title should never get posted: http://actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=120805
and here is the forum that automatically block those thread titles:
http://forums.devshed.com/web-design-27/
If someone is going to take the time to make a hack for the forums, I think this one would be much more benifical than resolved. Who cares it "help a noobie" is marked as resolved or not.
anonymous
11-01-2006, 10:59 PM
Funny that the particular thread you've referred to, has been resolved to the apparent satisfaction of the poster!
senocular
11-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Okay you're right which just supports my case that threads like this title should never get posted: http://actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=120805
and here is the forum that automatically block those thread titles:
http://forums.devshed.com/web-design-27/
If someone is going to take the time to make a hack for the forums, I think this one would be much more benifical than resolved. Who cares it "help a noobie" is marked as resolved or not.
Another job of the moderators: Rename thread titles as needed :D (vBul makes this easy since all you need to do is double-click the thread name cell in the forums threads view)
Flash Gordon
11-01-2006, 11:06 PM
Funny that the particular thread you've referred to, has been resolved to the apparent satisfaction of the poster!
should i pick a different username and start in to?
Funny that the particular thread you've referred to, has been resolved to the apparent satisfaction of the poster!
Point being? We're to discuss this issue, not poke and prod other users.
Jesse
11-02-2006, 07:19 AM
Re the "stupid thread titles" issue, see this post: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=120926
Let's stick here to the "marking resolved threads" topic.
pixelwit
11-02-2006, 12:00 PM
Another job of the moderators: Rename thread titles as needed :D (vBul makes this easy since all you need to do is double-click the thread name cell in the forums threads view)
Hey now THAT is news I can use.
I just edited all recent poorly titled posts in 'my' forums. Would have done the "Tutorials" and "Flash in Action" sections but alas, I don't moderate those forums. (Jesse:Hint hint) ;)
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
Would have done the "Tutorials" and "Flash in Action" sections but alas, I don't moderate those forums. (Jesse:Hint hint)
- quick jesse, sounds like pixelwit wants more forums to moderate...give him more work!
senocular
11-02-2006, 04:21 PM
Giving more moderation privileges to PW is a slippery slope, you may want to reconsider before it's too late. ;)
Senocular's phrase of the week "slippery slope"......no idea why I pointed that out...
pixelwit
11-02-2006, 06:10 PM
Just a few more mod privileges and I'll rule the world. RULE THE WORLD I SAY! Muahaha :D
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CyanBlue
11-02-2006, 06:13 PM
Um... Does that mean I already rule the world and I had no idea till today??? I am confused... :D
senocular
11-02-2006, 06:26 PM
This all after:
Let's stick here to the "marking resolved threads" topic.
:p
pixelwit
11-02-2006, 06:47 PM
Well if we ~must~ stay on topic...
Here's what I think is the current consensus:
Only the thread creator and moderators can mark a thread as resolved.
Put "Resolved" in front of the threads title.
Leave the thread open.
Anyone have requests or comments to add?
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
It has my vote...just as long as we dont close threads.
Jesse
11-03-2006, 09:12 AM
Would have done the "Tutorials" and "Flash in Action" sections but alas, I don't moderate those forums. (Jesse:Hint hint) ;)
*bling*
Your wish is my command.
Thx for summary. Sounds goto but I'm still really uncomfortable with the idea of having threads marked "resolved" when people are potentially going to post extensions to the question... If we're going to have a resolution capability, ppl will rely on it to be accurate and ignore posts which have it... even though they may have been extended by someone.
ok...so we take CyanBlue, tie him into a chair and he spends his entire day marking threads as resolved,leaving them open, and if someone posts a question inside a resolved thread, he will take appropriate actions....sound good?
CyanBlue
11-03-2006, 01:50 PM
Uh... Yeah... I'll do that as long as I rule the world... Muhahahaha... :D
Just a thought... Maybe... Maybe... We could add an automated reply when somebody makes the thread resolved which basically says this thread is resolved, so make use of it if you have same problem and if you have similar problem that this thread does not help you much, make a new thread with the pointer to this thread instead of creating chains of replies in this thread or something like that??? That way, we could at least try to tidy up the thread with valuable information and hope everything works well???
pixelwit
11-03-2006, 02:42 PM
On Topic: Maybe the problem is the word "resolved".
If a resolved thread acquires a new post it will still show up as such and can be treated in its normal fashion. Nobody is stopping anyone from reading a new post if they wish to do so. The only difference to the person answering threads is that the title may or may not be preceded by an "[R]".
The purpose of the "Resolved tag is to better identify resolved threads in a a user's search results, not to mark it as "no longer deserving attention".
A possible solution might be to only show the Resolved tag while viewing search results, but not while browsing the site. That way the only thing that changes is the way search results are displayed. Just a thought.
Off Topic: No CyanBlue, you can't or won't rule the world; you're too nice. I on the other hand am acquiring power so I can abuse it. A few more mod privileges and I'll be banning those who mock me. Those pesky rapscallions Senocular and TG will be the first to go I can assure you of that! Fear my ever-so-slightly-more powerful wrath. arrr.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
senocular
11-03-2006, 03:24 PM
the marking of resolved would be in reference to the original poster's question (since its the original poster who would mark a thread resolved). This is the same person who asked the question in the first post and the same person who wrote the title of the thread (unless re-written by a mod to more accurately relate to that question). People searching the forums are going to be looking at those titles to find topics that relate to their question. If one does AND they see it as being resolved, they pretty much know they have an answer. Does it matter then if that thread is extended? No because the original topic is what the searcher was after and they've found what they were looking for regardless of what else was added.
Additionally, marking a topic resolved would probably even prevent additional non-related content from being entered into the thread since people will see it as being "done".
way off topic: You can ban seno...he's like a super hero!
senocular
11-03-2006, 07:17 PM
way off topic: You can ban seno...he's like a super hero!
And by that Im sure Cota means you can TRY to ban seno, but you can't because he's impervious to your banning bullets being the super hero that he is. ;)
WoW..that was one hell of a typo...I maent you canT ban seno....stupid 3rd grade education failing me again...
CDHBookingEdge
11-03-2006, 08:37 PM
:o Ok LOL I'm trying to read all this and catch up so please forgive me. I'm on page 5 (of 9 so far). But I did have a thought here or two.
My first thought is, let's be programmers! LOL What we're really talking about here is an issues database of sorts right? I mean think about it. We're using such words as "resolved" and "closed" and "related" and such.
If you're going to mark something as closed (or resolved or any word you want to put in there) it should not be "unsearchable", in my mind.
Again let's think of an issues database/program. If I'm a support person, I want to look in the issues database and find out whether or not it's been resolved, or if there's a workaround, or if the user was out of their minds and delusional that day. If I'm a programmer I might want to do a search and find out that someone else had a similar (or maybe identical problem) and there was a solution.
Am I totally missing the boat or what? I mean disregarding Jesse's technical issues (sorry Jesse), isn't what we're asking really this?
"I want to be able to look at a thread and see if the issue has been resolved or not. I can tell when someone has posted a question and it has no answers, that yeah, that sucker has no resolution. But I don't want to be sitting here with umpteen posts that a lot of talk has gone on and follow the thread only to find out that no solution has been derived. Especially when I have umpteen threads that matched my search to check thru."
So if you really think about it there's set of states for a thread right? Thinking off the top of my head you've got: unresolved, known bug, has workaround, resolved, non-issue.
Fill in your own set.
Now Cy says: “But I still insist that the resolved thread should be closed, but it looks like it is just me... I am only saying that because one closed thread with the solution has more value than one open thread with multiple issues and multiple solutions... That could potentially make the new person more confused...”
Maybe I am misunderstanding terminology here, but closed in the context we’re speaking of does not mean “non-searchable” nor does it mean “non-viewable” as far as the discussion here. Really a better term would be “resolved” wouldn’t it? Closed = erased, it seems like in many peoples minds, and I don’t disagree. Resolved means there’s an issue, a question, an idea that hasn’t reached a final viable solution. Now who makes that decision? A moderator or the user that started the thread.
So what you’ve got is a thread object that contains posts right? A thread can have a status, a state. (See above) If and only if, a thread has been marked as resolved then it cannot be added to. It can be referenced however. And this I think answers, or maybe it doesn’t seno’s point as far as his statement:
“A resolved issue doesnt mean the thread shouldn't have more traffic. As mentioned, there's always room for thank you's and roolzers and things of the such. Plus someone might come along later and have an updated or alternate solution to add. The topic would still be "resolved" but now just have additional information and additional options.” Let’s take a typical scenario. A thread is opened (an issue has been noted), someone posts a message something like “Hmmm..you might check here..this might solve your problem.” There are really 3 ways of responding to that. 1) Don’t respond at all. 2) “Hey that helped thanks bunches!” (And marked as resolved.) 3) “Thanks but though it did shed some light on the subject it didn’t solve the problem. (And left as unresolved)
So aren't we really talking about categories? And really a need for more finite categorization.
Sorry for dragging things on, if I did. Ok, you probably all hate me about now. :o
Christopher
CyanBlue
11-03-2006, 08:57 PM
I hate you already for making me read all that... :p
The general idea behind the 'resolved thread should be closed' is that the thread is read only to keep one issue in that thread... We never want to close the thread and make it unviewable... We do want to share the knowledge so that we don't have to answer the same type of question over and over... ;)
Here is a simplest example I can think of... PosterA asks a question that goes with loading a variable from the external text file in FMX, and somebody helps him and that resolves the original problem... A month later, PosterB finds that thread and and he wants to do the same thing with the XML file in FMX 2004... Maybe the question is sorta staying the same as the original one, but the method could be really different... Anyways, somebody helps him and gave him another solution... A monther later, PosterC sees that thread and implements the solutionB, but he says it is not working and we point it out that it is not working because you don't have FMX 2004 and PosterC says that the title says FMX blah blah... You get the idea... Sometimes, you just cannot make the progress of the thread stay in the original question and it turns to something totally different... That's why 'I' originally said we should close the thread when it gets resolved...
As for the idea of 'category', it sure can be done and it can be really useful, but the problem is that if you MOD something in this vB, it needs to be applied again and again whenever you upgrade the forum software, so we really want to make the MOD really simple to update everytime, or keep it minimum effort... The bottom line is that I think that's a great idea and it can be done if Jesse is willing to take that risk... ;)
I've got to stop bambling... :D
guys....3rd grade education..smaller words please...
On topic - I think we're beating a dead horse here...Lets just leave things the way they are..its simple, easy to implement and easy to maintain...
senocular
11-03-2006, 10:03 PM
guys....3rd grade education..smaller words please...
On topic - I think we're beating a dead horse here...Lets just leave things the way they are..its simple, easy to implement and easy to maintain...
I was just about to suggest that :)
CDHBookingEdge
11-03-2006, 10:28 PM
LOL thanks Cy, for at least saying I'm not totally stupid :D
So the real concept is that the marking of a post as "resolved" (not closed) and setting up some ways handle that are not feasible at this moment. So is there an interim solution? It could be just "Getting the word out there, and telling the posters in some way to use a bit more care."
Yeah most of the users won't do it. But hell, the effort put forth by all of you as far as discussing this whole (pardon the pun) issue, is above and beyond the call of duty and just because Jesse is unable to use his tools to provide something needed is no need to knock him! (I so hope you understand the fact that that was a total joke Jesse!)
So is this issue considered "resolved"? :D
pixelwit
11-04-2006, 11:30 AM
Lame.
A good idea gets squashed because a committee couldn't decide how to make it a perfect idea.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
senocular
11-04-2006, 03:01 PM
Its the way of the world
pixelwit
11-04-2006, 05:02 PM
...I think we're beating a dead horse here...Lets just leave things the way they are..its simple, easy to implement and easy to maintain...
...and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."
irrelevant link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08)
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
Ok, then lets take this route...Lets start a poll, options are as follows...
1- [R] in title(thread still open)
2 - [R] in title (thread closed)
3 - Leave it alone.
4 - CyanBlue for President with Seno as Vice President
Can we all agree to that?
pixelwit
11-04-2006, 05:22 PM
I don't understand why putting an "R" in the title (or whatever letter or word you may happen to prefer) suddenly throws the forum into a major tizzy. "OMG the thread's title has an "[R]" in it, I can't respond to it, I can't add to it, and it somehow broke my keyboard and filed false claims on my Income Tax returns. Stupid "[R]"!
The only time the "R" is meant to affect your behavior is when you see it in a list of search results. And even then, nobody's forcing you to click a thread with an R in the title.
So why is making relevant threads easier to find a bad thing again?
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CDHBookingEdge
11-04-2006, 05:41 PM
It is the way of the world. I'll admit that. But here's an idea. I mean let's designate things out, organize concepts. What do we have? An idea, a feature, right?
I’ll try and lay out what I understand as the feature, the proposal.
1) A way to categorize a thread as resolved.
2) Though it might be marked as resolved it is still searchable. It is only marked as resolved. Resolved is just a flag, an enum, a category.
3) The actuating of the feature can be wholly turned off by simply not putting in the UI constructs to initiat it. So it can be relatively easily turned off.
4) The category addition allows further delineation
Now one thing I’ve never heard really stated is what’s the goal of this. What is it that everyone agrees is needed?
Then we have solutions as presented by Cota.
1) [R] in title(thread still open)
2) [R] in title (thread closed)
3) Leave it alone.
4) CyanBlue for President with Seno as Vice President
I would add a 5th, just an idea. Add field to designate category, it can either be put into the UI or not. It can be a Mod only feature that it be filled in. The concept is categorization and delineation is it not?
So what about a 5th being as follows:
A field will be added to the vb forum “database” that will denote category. The defaul will be unresolved. It will be added to as far as categories as are deemed appropriate. At this point in time those “features” will be inaccessible. In the future something will be added to the advanced search whereby posts or threads can be searched using category as a criteria in the search. Until such timeit would be advisable for thread starters and for Mods to change the tiles as they see fit by the addition of “{Resolved]”. (The reason for Resolved instead of R is that R even with brackets around it is considered too small of a term for the vB search engine to search)
I’ll simply add that as my 5th option.
Christopher
senocular
11-04-2006, 05:41 PM
Would people even know what [R] is? As far as they know the thread could be rated R and all our 17- users wouldn't be able to view them.
As we all already know, Flashkit uses [Resolved] and simply has a link in the thread tools list. If this is going to be implemented, I think that would be the way to go since flash users are likely familiar with Flashkit and would probably be expecting the same behavior here (if it exists at all).
So I think the question is less how (as I would think FK is setting the standard already) but whether or not if we should at all.
CDHBookingEdge
11-04-2006, 05:54 PM
So I think the question is less how (as I would think FK is setting the standard already) but whether or not if we should at all.
I think, untill the software feature is come up with and implemented, we all, users and mods alike are going to "do it" to an extent. It's a grass roots kind of thing. Until the feature is fully implemented in the software, users and mods are encouraged to use [Resolved] to denote a thread where a question was asked and a solution was provided. Those "in the know" will understand how to use it. Those who have to do the conversion will have a set of agreed upon "rules" as far as doing their conversion of the data.
It seems like a reasonably win/win scenaro or at least as well as can be derived at this time. I know I will keep this in mind and try and do this. Anything that adds to the better usability of a tool is always a good thing.
CDHBookingEdge
11-04-2006, 06:47 PM
Ok I read this: but I'm still really uncomfortable with the idea of having threads marked "resolved" when people are potentially going to post extensions to the question... If we're going to have a resolution capability, ppl will rely on it to be accurate and ignore posts which have it... even though they may have been extended by someone.
And I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me. Why would someone ignore a thread that is shown to be resolved? That I don't get. I'm a software developer, I'm a worker bee, a drone, I want to get my work done, with the least amount of effort. That seems bassackwards thinking in my mind. I want to look for resolutions, I don't want to see where jonny or timmy or joseph or houshmandzadeh had the similar failing. I want a solution. That's the whole goal here is it not? To lessen the subset, to make the search result better. Again am I missing something?
Here's what Bruno asked for:
Could one of the moderators please tell me whether it is possible to mark a thread as "solved"? If not, I think this would be a major improvement. I don't mean making it a "sticky".
I am one of the (few?) persons that actually searches related subforums for answers before I post my problem. Instead of browsing through 100s of threads, I think it would be very useful to retrieve a list of threads that have actually contributed to the knowledge base of ActionScript.org .
Thanks
Now let's look at the end of that quote "I think it would be very useful to retrieve a list of threads that have actually contributed to the knowledge base of ActionScript.org"
He wants to do a subset of the search. Pix said it's not available now. That's an answer.
And aha! Life becomes reality doesn't it? (Sorry this just occured to me) This is a thread with someone asking a question is it not? Pixelwit answered the question. The question should be marked as resolved. Should it deserve a follow up? Yes. The "next post" could be in another thread. It could easily reference the "resolved thread", couldn't it? Look at the title: "AS.org knowlegde base" What he wants is a knowledge base, a KB. That could be done at a later point.
I don't know maybe there's something I'm missing here, and maybe it's due to rule by committee. But until that committee makes a decision and a resultant reaction, at least can't we all make a concerted effort to attach [Resolved] to the title of a thread that has been resolved as it's original question, and try to "cajole" other posters to add that keyword as well?
Christopher
pixelwit
11-04-2006, 07:14 PM
Would people even know what [R] is?
I was using "[R]" as a general reference to whatever real indicator might be chosen since using specific words (like "resolved" "closed", "solved" and "final solution" :eek: ) seemed to draw focus away from the main topic. I'm not too concerned about which word or symbol gets used as long as threads with a suitable answer to the original post stand out from the ones without.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CDHBookingEdge
11-04-2006, 07:25 PM
There are no answers; only choices
yeah but we gotta get choice made right? I mean sh** I've only been in this discussion for a bit and I'm already about to revert to my way of reacting LOL . So the "answer" is that until the feature is put in and adopted all of us, users and Mods are "encouraged" to use [Resolved] as an additive to the title. This will help individuals to better use the forum until that feature is put in and is worked so that it's usable by both forum users and forum moderators.
LOL now comes the questions I have to ask, you Mods have the ability to change the title right? And does the user as well? Meaning the user that posted the thread.
Christopher
pixelwit
11-04-2006, 07:36 PM
...So I think the question is less how (as I would think FK is setting the standard already) but whether or not if we should at all.
Have you or anyone else here had much experience with the resolved tag on the FlashKit forums? If so what did you think of it?
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CDHBookingEdge
11-04-2006, 08:06 PM
When you mentioned it I looked at it. I saw it in thread tools. Actually I hope that I didn't mark a thread wrongly as resolved.
So let's think about this. Is what you're really saying is "FK can do it, why the hell aren't we doing it?"
I, as a user, keep focusing on this statement:
but the problem is that if you MOD something in this vB, it needs to be applied again and again whenever you upgrade the forum software, so we really want to make the MOD really simple to update everytime, or keep it minimum effor
So we have a failure it seems in the underlying software. Apparently as your saying, or seem to be saying, FK has overcome these issues. So you're putting forth the concept that it be developed, I'm putting forth the concept that until this feature is adapted we all adapt certain formats that will be relatively easy to be converted.
(An aside)
I find it interesting that unless I'm mistaken, the only "users" that have spoken up on this as a possibility are Bruno and myself.
Here's my proposal, an interim proposal. Until the features we all see in our minds are implemented, we each adopt a certain format.
Users: If you put up a question and it is answered, then please put [Resolved] on the title.
Mods: If you are looking over a thread and you see it answered/resolved, please add [Resolved] to the title.
Would that work in the interim?
Just an idea.
Firstly, the [R] could have been anything..it was a place holder. Secondly, flashkit is a horrible place...I would rather stab my hand before going back to that place...its how I ended up here.
I do agree that marking threads as resolved, or whatever you wish to call it, is a very good idea. My issue was with closing a thread simply because it was resolved. So, with that said...I believe we are in agreement that the [resolved] concept is a go..??
Flash Gordon
11-04-2006, 08:16 PM
if the threads aren't going close, it might be a good idea to let user be able to change the status or [RESOLVED] thread titles. That way when some continues to post in the thread it wont go unnoticed since people will think it is resolved.
I don't think there is be an issue of vandalism as Wikipedia doesn't really have it and it is rather open.....
just a thought
CDHBookingEdge
11-04-2006, 10:15 PM
ya know (not always a good thing to hear or to say, I know)
I'm sitting here posting to this thread, thinking, sh** I have work to do.
I'm also sitting here thinking, I'm making posts to people that are Mods or at least people that have been here and involved in development of these types of applications, are I would expect, more knowledgeable than myself. And aren't you spending more time "diddling" yourselves with this (yes I'll admit I'm "diddling myself as well")? Seno or Pix or someone put in the comment to Jesse that he was not the Mod for certain areas of the forum. Does it matter? You "guys" seem to be more involved in this than actually getting the idea out there.
It's a viable technology but without infrastucture and the Mods or whatever you want to call them, looking at posts and trying to answer them. As long as you worry and tary your time on this aren't you ignoring your Mod duties?
I mean what is a freaking forum for? Yes it's for commiserating and for chatting and BS-ing but it is also for getting answers is it not?
As all of you inteligent people are spending time talking about this situation where a question that has been answered/solved/resolved aren't you also missing your "job title" your perspective? You're focusing on vB, not Flex or Flash or any of those things.
I mean da** Jesse spoke about in a post as far as best practices, and I looked into articles and saw 0 as far as best practices and what do I see?
"No articles found in this category" so it's like. ..what the <bleep>?
What are we? We're people, with needs. Are we gonna bullshit or gonna get somethng(s) done?
Let's use the community that exists for a nicely done product to getting some actual work done.
I mean I've put up 7 threads...that are questions. (10 total) And none of them have been attempted to be answered.
Now I've answered, or tried to answer about about 4 or 5 threads, off the top of my head. I can think of at least two that the starter of the thread said "yep that answered my question"
Now out of those 7 aforementioned I got a total of 0 replies.
So is it that we've all gone soft and don't want to answer questions or what?
Yeah resolved would be nice, but wouldn't answers be nicer?
Or maybe I'm not looking and posting in the proper areas. Maybe I should put it in something that is labeled as 2004 (last I checked it's 2006 and heading quickly to 2007)
I mean come on look at it people, let's get out there and put out some fuc**** answers. If that's not done then there can be no resolution can there?
No more caffine for him! Fact of the matter is we're still doing our "duties". If you questions are going unanswered, then you either arent being clear enough, or the people that have seen it done have an answer for you. It happens, life goes on. Granted, you are probably one of the "users" that searches before you ask a question, and we greatly appreciate that, but there are so many that dont. The "resolved/answered/retarded" issue is to benefit people like you who do search. As mentioned before, this isnt a matter of pressing a button and poof its done..damn thing has to be hacked up.
The biggest problem we have here is we are debating...I say pull the trigger and let ride!
MichaelxxOA
11-04-2006, 11:07 PM
Okay for starters, we are all here during our spare time answering questions for two reasons. So other people get helped, and so that we can grow as developers as well. There's no reason to bring up how many people you've helped and how many questions you have had answered, we are all trying when we can. Chances are whoever has looked over your question does not have the skillset to help you, or does not have the time required to explain or build an example. Most likely because they are at work.
As far as this whole resolved situation goes, (I have been a little unaware because I'm only able to get here a few minutes out of the day, because I am working/commuting alot at the moment). Here is what I propose.
With VB we get the source correct? We are able to identify in data who is a mod and who is not. We can simply build a system that supports a form of check-and-balances.
It would be nice in the Thread Starter tools if we can have a mark as resolved option. Instead of closing this thread and marking it resolved, it will send a message to us moderators. This message will simply have some consistent Resolved Thread title and a link to the thread. Then we can look over the threads and see if they are sufficiently explained/resolved, and if so we can mark the thread as resolved. Now a resolved thread isn't closed it is simply marked with [Resolved] before the title name, and possibly an update, to an added column, to the posts table in the database. The reason we should not close a thread is that people will always have questions, always.
To be perfectly honest, if we have the source code it wouldn't be that difficult of a system to build. It's simply adding a column to whatever table describes/contains the posts, adding a tool/php function to the Thread Starter tools, and then adding a tool to the Moderate panel.
It's a system that will not only work, but we will be sure to limit the amount of posts marked resolved that are either not resolved, or the resolution is not well enough explained to adapt anyway.
It's just an idea, if we go for it, I will assist in the building of it.
Take care.
Michael
CDHBookingEdge
11-05-2006, 12:26 AM
I don't think that I would be able to say it any better than Michael. My point (as I was trying to deal with discussions on the phone with family) was that the user, the End USER, is the one that gains from this. We all want a better environment. And if this gets us something that is usable, then lets stop dicking ourselves around and start doing it.
but if we stop doing that, my fridays and saturdays would be rather dull...
pixelwit
11-05-2006, 01:45 PM
if the threads aren't going close, it might be a good idea to let user be able to change the status or [RESOLVED] thread titles. That way when some continues to post in the thread it wont go unnoticed since people will think it is resolved....
Hi FG. The word "resolved" may imply that the thread is finished and done, but that is not my goal. I merely want to note that the person who first asked the question got a suitable answer. That's it. There's no reason follow up questions can't or shouldn't be asked, viewed and answered as is currently being done.
If the word "resolved" is the problem, then let's choose a different word or phrase. "Got One!", "Satisfied Customer", "Happy Camper", "Good Answer", "Knowledge Inside", "Snuffleupagus", "Answered"...
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CDHBookingEdge
11-05-2006, 01:56 PM
Cota: LOL yeah I was harsh and deserve any flaming I get. Just was frustrated I suppose at the lack of coming to a resolution based on what I saw as the facts. 1) It sounds like the features not going to be implemented at least in the near future. 2) Based on 1 we need a "workaround"
So is [Resolved] the accepted format everyone is being urged to use? I'm just wondering so that if and when I have to do it to one of my posts, I do it in the right way.
Christopher
Its all good...so Jesse, whats your opinion thus far?
CDHBookingEdge
11-10-2006, 07:10 PM
A couple of questions, just figuring out how best to self-manage things based on what I've heard here and trying to make sure I'm not "jumping the gun". It's my understanding that in the interim of any programmatic changes being made that the Mods and also the users themselves are being asked to add [Resolved] to the title of threads that they feel have been resolved. Based on that I have two questions.
1) Is that right? Has that been decided on? As an interim way of handling things?
2) If the answer to 1 is "Yes" then (LOL) how the heck do I change the title of a thread that I started?
Thanks, just wanna make sure,
Christopher
MichaelxxOA
11-10-2006, 08:10 PM
To change the title of the thread you started simply double click the title, wherever you see it. I think that's how you change it.
Michael
CDHBookingEdge
11-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Thanks yet again Michael.
pixelwit
11-10-2006, 08:26 PM
It's my understanding that in the interim of any programmatic changes being made that the Mods and also the users themselves are being asked to add [Resolved] to the title of threads that they feel have been resolved. Based on that I have two questions.
1) Is that right? Has that been decided on? As an interim way of handling things?...
Jesse and Strok are the ones who ultimately decide. As of yet, they seem to be keeping quiet.
The only problem I see with marking threads "[Resolved]" on your own is that it may cause confusion if a different method is implemented later. But on the other hand, it may be better than doing nothing at all.
-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com
CyanBlue
11-10-2006, 08:32 PM
I could be missing something because I was not online for the past few days, but it doesn't seem like we heard anything from Jesse or Strok... So, if that's the case, it is not decided yet... ;)
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