Discussion Starter: Tools/Development Environment. Setting up one to work with you.

[CDHBookingEdge]

Based on the fact that I ("uggh") am having to completely reset up my development environment, I started having some thoughts and thought this might be a good roundtable discussion and who knows could even develop into a tutorial of sorts down the road.

I'm not going to put any "constraints" on it. Just kinda gonna open it up to a free form discussion but here's some ideas and questions to shoot out there to try and get things started.

1) What tools do you use most often?

2) What tools do you not use often but darn when you need them you're oh so glad they are there for you?

3) What kinds of tools do you wish you had available?

4) Do you kind of just remember what's where and things are (to some degree or form) spread out, or do you have a more organized approach to it? If the latter what kind of organization scheme do you find works for you?

5) Are you a pretty much "one thing only" type developer (Meaning do you pretty much work on one kind of thing) Or more of an Octopus developer (Might be doing something in this language and environment at one moment and another at another time.)? If the latter do you have tools or schemes that you use to handle that diversity?

That's all for now I guess. I look forward to the discussion and sharing of ideas.

Christopher

[newblack]

1) Eclipse + FDT + MTASC, LuminicBox

2) My pinky toe

3) I wish there was drag and drop text in Eclipse...

4) This is kind of an awkwardly ambiguous question. I think the ultimate challenge to code, (the more abstract, the truer this is), is reusability. I want the stuff that I build to be reusable. So when I start a project my mind immediately goes to what has been built in the past. What is going to be effective in the new project, etc.

This is just me, but I really find organizational solace in metaphors. If I treat an application I'm architecting as if it's hardware, I find organization presents itself organically*. Then, quite naturally, I can reuse the *hardware* as a means to run new *software*. It all gets compiled into one .swf, but it helps to detach what's unique from project to project.

5)I like the potential of ActionScript/.swfs and so I like to spend most of my time in that arena** but I also play with Proce55ing a bit.

*I hate this phrase, "organically", but if the shoe fits...
**god, I hate this phrase even more- apologies.

[CDHBookingEdge]

Thanks for the response first off!

1) You say Eclipse (http://www.eclipse.org/) and not FB2. So do you use Eclipse and have it modified as your main (lacking a better word at the moment) Command center? By that I mean do you it so that you can run MTASC (http://osflash.org/mtasc) and such? (Ahh taking a glance at FDT (http://fdt.powerflasher.com/flashsite/flash.htm) maybe that's what you use to organize the 3 of them.) What exactly is LuminicBox (http://www.luminicbox.com/blog/) and how do you use it or what do you use it for?

2) Please note title of my reply :D But, there's not any other tools out there that you infrequently use and find a boon but only when you need them?

3) Hmm interesting. That's the only thing you really feel a need for is textual drag and drop? (Yeah I'm pumping you for further info especially here, I apologize)

4) Yeah it was vague and I'm not sure if my first thought was to make it purposefully that way or not. Let me try and clarify.

In one way it kind of reflects as to your answer as far as #1. You said you use Eclipse, now is that your main organizational tool and you've set that up to do the main things you need to do on a regular basis? Or do you do what you need in Eclipse and jump over to MTASC to do that and then jump to the other?

The question was also a kind of lead in to #5. (Which I'll also admit is kind of vague) But really I guess both questions are kind of related and could be summed up as "Do you have or feel you have or work best with a 'command center' approach, or do you feel that you kind of like the 'ok I'm over here, now I'm over here, now I'm over here" approach?" What works best for you? Does a command center approach make you feel constrained or do you like the fact that things are right there at your fingertips?

I know those statements are somewhat equally as vague, my apologies. There are many different styles of work and such and I'm just trying to get a concept of them and a possible set of ideas and guidelines and tools and such to provide myself and others possible better and more diverse options.

No comments really on #5 except to ask the following: What is "Proce55ing"? Sorry I'm not familiar with it.

Christopher

[newblack]

This (http://processing.org/) is processing! Lots of fun.

LuminicBox download here (http://www.luminicbox.com/dev/flash/log/luminicbox.log.zip). It's a logging tool that uses local connection (such that you can view logs in any environment) and quite nicely iterates over your logged objects to display them in tree-form. Logging an array looks like so:
+array[3]
expanding that displays:
-array[3]
+anObject :0
+anotherObject :1
"hello world" :2

where it will iterate over any of those objects in your array as well!

Since I'm largely doing AS2 stuff right now, I use Eclipse with the FDT plugin to write ActionScript. In tandem it's rather similar to fb2, and in fact a little more robust... fdt comes with a hefty price tag, though.

Then, to compile I just run an ANT build right in Eclipse, so I generally don't leave the Eclipse IDE except to go to the bathroom once in a while.

Tools I would like to see: An audio recording of me saying 'Stop That!' whenever anyone tries to extend MovieClip.. I don't know- an integrated approach to compiling and having that automatically uploaded to a testing environment? A better merge tool for SVN?

Tools I use rarely but am happy exist: Photoshop/Flash/iChat

[CDHBookingEdge]

Luminic sounds cool. I mean I in my current endeavors don't have an immediate need for it, but hey that may change at any moment. Or maybe I'm must missing the concept right now and will see the need very soon.

One thing of note is that you said "fdt comes with a hefty price tag" and I won't disagree with you there at all at around $275 (US) but FB2 is $500 t0 $800. LOL all of them pretty hefty, depending on your context.

I had to laugh when you said I generally don't leave the Eclipse IDE except to go to the bathroom once in a while.
At a company I used to work with, I so wanted to say, and might have "nicely" said a time or two "If we do this right, then they will start to think they have to consult our product when they need to even go to the restroom. And that's when we know we got 'em hooked!"

So yeah sounds like you are of the same concept that I am, in the desire to have a command center and within reason have it all right there for you so you can, as much as possible, not lose context. (Though looking at the fact that I have 12 webpages and 18 e-mail documents open at the moment, I don't know if I'm accomplishing that desired goal very well.)

Christopher

[Cota]

For me, its alittle more spread out

1- Flash IDE, Photoshop, Visual Studio, MS SQL, and PhpMyAdmin.

2- UltraEdit

3- I dont know..Wish there was one truly universal browser.

4- I have a good idea where most of what I need is. I operate under the concept that everything is possible and just go from there.

5- I would like to think I'm more than a one trick pony. Aside from web development, I design, I also develop desktop and database software.

[tg]

1. flash ide, coldfusion, vs, plsql_developer, textpad+
2. ... er.. nvm.
3. when i need something, if i dont have it... i ask smart folk like you guys.
4.my scrap is scattered everywhere.... its all over the place like a monkey has been slingin it around. i usually know where stuff is and find it.
5. damn stinkin octopus. folks come to me and ask me to do the darnedest things.... and like a dumba** i do them.

[jsebrech]

At work:
1) flash ide, oracle, php4, apache, pspad (for editing all non-AS code)
2) alcon (another more advanced logger)
3) better ways to do flexible layout with the built-in components of flash
4) it's all in a package structure, so I can reuse things, but even project-specific code is in the structure, so it's all very organized

At home mostly the same, except number 1 is a combination of custom-hacked shell scripts, mtasc, swfmill and the free version of BBEdit.

[CDHBookingEdge]

Hmmm lots of stuff to cogitate on here. I think I'm more of the a) octopus b) want to have a command center and everything at my finger tips. Looking like I'm gonna end up using FlashDevelop and changing it as well as possible to be "FlexDevelop" Might work on some type of simple set of web pages to act as a kind of command center and not only for the usual development work but also for things like my normal daily routine (minus the drinking of coffee LOL) like checking yahoo e-mails and forums and such.
And also some stuff to launch programs and websites and such quickly.

Oh, Cota, you said you use VS have you used SharpDevelop at all? I like it in some ways more than VS. Feel like in some ways I have more control than with it possibly cuz I know I can worst case go and change the code, though I've not done that before.

Anyway all good stuff, I feel.

Here's a quick question for you guys. In FB2 they did have a nice help system. Does anyone know of a possibly web based tool to be able to more cleanly go thru the livedocs? I hate it that when I do a search it launches a whole new window of my hits. I'd like to have a more MDI type view as I had in FB2. I probably miss the help as much as the compiler and the debugger LOL.

Anyway, till later,
Christopher

[CDHBookingEdge]

First off it seems like the current respondents are much more involved in the Flash/As2 arena, and not that involved in the Flex/As3 arena. Please understand that I'm not a) knocking that in any way b) equating As3 with only Flex it is used quite a bit in Flash development as well and I'm not denying that at all. I just find that fact interesting/elucidating.

Also of note is the fact that 3 out of 5 seem to be of a more "everything in one place" type bent. Again that's not putting one over the other in any way shape or form. What works the best for a person works the best for them. But it is an interesting viewpoint. Of course more respondents will show that early analysis as ultimately true or false.

Some other interesting observations and admitted generalizations.
Newblack noted as far as things he'd like to have: "an integrated approach to compiling and having that automatically uploaded to a testing environment? A better merge tool for SVN?" Cota noted: "one truly universal browser" Tg noted: "better ways to do flexible layout with the built-in components of flash" So we can put as far as a list: (and rephrase in any way you see fit. I'm only trying to "assimilate" things)
1) Better team/organizational tools.
2) A need for a write once and it's done kind of "OS"/Presentation model.
3) A more usable/extendible layout/design module.

Now if we take a look also at #2 as far as the original questions (which I feel that 2 and 3 are related, though I'm of a more "at your fingertips" kind of person) Cota mentioned UltraEdit (http://www.ultraedit.com/), from my brief glance, I'd "define it" as "a more univeral editor". Both newblack and jsebrech mentioned loggers, and new also added a few "design" tools and one that I'd put as somewhat of a "team" tool (maybe I'm reaching there, I'm not familiar with iChat nor how he uses it.) I'm going to purposefully ignore newblacks big toe and tg's "nvm". I don't think I want to know! LOL But hey if they help more power to ya!

Looking back on my first post, though I will admit I didn't put that much cognisant thought into it at the time, I think I considered 1-3 related to actual tools and 4-5 related to styles. And I don't think the question or the debate is limited to either or those constraints. I think that both concepts work together and have to otherwise there is a lot of imbalance.

Yes I know that I have not provided in any way my own answers to the questions, and there are a few purposes for that, one being that you've probably heard me drone on enough. Another being the fact that I didn't want to give any "leads" too early as far as the bent I was taking for both correspondents purposes and my own purposes.

I personally think there is something to be gained here, both as a group and individually, even for viewers.

Anyway, I'll shut up now but hope more is heard from you guys and others. ;-)

Just one aside: It's interesting that everyone mentioned "desktop" tools pretty much and no one mentioned As.org or any of the other forums and such as "tools".

Christopher

[pixelwit]

... It's interesting that everyone mentioned "desktop" tools pretty much and no one mentioned As.org or any of the other forums and such as "tools".

...when i need something, if i dont have it... i ask smart folk like you guys.

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[CDHBookingEdge]

LOL Yeah I thought about that too, unfortunately AFTER I posted that. Sorry bout that Pix

[pixelwit]

No biggy. Just thought I'd point it out.

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[jsebrech]

First off it seems like the current respondents are much more involved in the Flash/As2 arena, and not that involved in the Flex/As3 arena. Please understand that I'm not a) knocking that in any way b) equating As3 with only Flex it is used quite a bit in Flash development as well and I'm not denying that at all. I just find that fact interesting/elucidating.

Switching to AS3 implies a dependency on the newest player versions, whereas at work I still have to support player 7 (considering a switch to player 8).

I suspect the relative attention to flash instead of flex has something to do with the fact that flex is relatively new, and that it is different, so there's a definite learning curve present there, with unsure pay-offs.

Frankly, I have no idea if flex even would make sense for me. I just don't know enough about it.