Questions for Adobe?

[Jesse]

We've recently had an offer from Adobe to be connected with their product teams and even some people pretty senior for the purposes of an interview or similar.

I can think of a few questions I'd have, but ultimately you, the readers may have more of an idea. Got any pressing questions you'd like to ask anyone in particular in Adobe? I'm not guaranteeing anything but if you post them here, we'll see what we can do.

I'm thinking here questions like where they see the industry in 20 years, not "what features are in Flash 10" because I'm doubting you'll get that :)

[MichaelxxOA]

If/when they plan on open the .fla format so that flash files can be version controlled in a team environment.

- Although I'm sure a lot of our questions can be answered by Sen.

[jsebrech]

How would they see flash adapting to new interface paradigms like voice-driven or multi-touch?

[hangalot]

If/when they plan on open the .fla format so that flash files can be version controlled in a team environment.


they have done this. its called an as3 project and the embed tag

[MichaelxxOA]

I specifically said .fla

-M

[hangalot]

i know. there were talks to make the fla format a zip file ages ago and the descriptor format xml. this came to nought, i don't know why, but i suspect size and optomisation. but i think it has become a moot point now as you can acheive that with good design and the external compiler and some jsfl. its a matter of applying yourself.
schematic is a nice company, i saw some of the stuff in boston thats happening in the company and a friend of mine visited boston now again and saw some real nice work.

[MichaelxxOA]

I heard something or other about it going to a mark up style format, but I'm not sure. It'd just be infinitely helpful, especially at Schematic where we have fairly large teams. And most of the time we are resourced 100%, without the time to 'apply' ourselves in any extra way at all.

It is true though a lot can be achieved without it.

-M

-- Thank you, our Boston office MPG team is a great team headed by Joey Lott, but every person there is really talented.

[pixelwit]

ActionScript's roots go back to animators using "gotoAndPlay" to make their animations a little more interactive. As ActionScript evolves, it seems to be leaving it's "Designer" roots behind for a more advanced "Programmer" base. What is Adobe going to do to help make coding ActionScript more accessible to non-programmers?

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[atomic]

My guess is nothing if you agree with this...

http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showpost.php3?p=625779&postcount=12

[Flash Gordon]

sounds like he is bitching about AS 3.0 which was in develop before adobe took over. His case doesn't hold water.

[atomic]

This is not about Adobe vs Macromedia but as Pixelwit put it... "...leaving it's "Designer" roots behind for a more advanced "Programmer" base..."
Who is there to say Adobe didn't steer away the then Macromedia but now their own employees, from what could of been a different path?
Path! I like it! Is this a relative or an absolute one?

This "designer" - although I don't even consider myself as a good one - is for one, sticking with AS2.0, period. God bless the "Programmers"!

[hangalot]

This "designer" - although I don't even consider myself as a good one - is for one, sticking with AS2.0, period. God bless the "Programmers"!

good for you, now shut up and get on with it. i am tired about everybody bitching about as3 and telling everyone who does not care to hear that they are sticking with as2. i heard all this with as1 as well. wow, you get slower and faster adopters.

pixelwit on the other hand has a real concern, and the timeline is not dead (yet), you can author timeline animations in either avm1 or avm2 and it works still when imported, but communication between stuff is not that easy always and this is the area of concern that needs to be addressed mostly i think.

[CyanBlue]

Totally agreed... Thanks to the help of the new technology, the gap between the designer and the developer has gotten bigger... I am sure that's something Adobe/Macromedia has foreseen/experienced from the time when they introduced AS2... What I hear so far is pretty much like they don't care about the designers learning the language and they have done nothing to help the designers except putting back the normal mode for the Action panel...
I really doubt that they can provide us anything good for that question though... At least, I cannot think of better way of helping people to get used to the new stuff... :(

[mattkenefick]

I might be way off base here and/or hated by designers by saying this but maybe Adobe doesn't want designers involved anymore.

Yes, it's obvious that they're taken a leap to the programmer side but it's still a bit designer friendly. I think perhaps they want to make it fully programmer oriented like C++, VB, Python etc... You don't see many designers making things in C++, but you do see some very powerful programs coming out of it because they devote their efforts to enhancing the coding language.

I'm sure it takes a lot more effort, work, and resources to make all the visual designer methods work. IE: The motion tracking thing where it records the AS of your motions in CS3. They spent time doing stuff like that when instead they could be making ways to read code faster, come up with new classes /methods/ etc..

I wouldn't be surprised if some day it looked / worked just like C, VB, etc... I mean, they've already got Apollo out there for desktop programs. Maybe they're trying to make this an easy online/offline application system. They've seen what we can do with it so far, and it can do some great things. Maybe they really want to just full-steam ahead to application programming with it.

It's not like its super overwhelming because its a very popular language and program so everyone has to adapt.

Just my 2 cents.

[CyanBlue]

It sure looks like that's the path they have in mind...
The trouble is that Flash started as a tool for the designers, and evolved this far... It makes more sense to create a new tool for the developers than converting the current tool for the new purpose unless they completely ignore the userbase... Um... I don't know... My philosophy is that I don't worry if it is something I cannot influence, and this typical situation probably falls onto that... One thing obvious is that we've got to adapt if we were to survive in this industry... I've been yapping longer than I should have been... I'll just shut up and learn... BUT, this question should be one of the important question that needs to be asked... That's for sure... ;)

[hangalot]

they had to make the flash platform run at a decent speed thus as3 had to come, no way around that. they will never let designers go and M$ are also trying to get the mix between design and development going.
Expect more and more integration with other vector packages and video packages that adobe offer and the swf platforms. We have a great code editor in flex builder, we have a decent timeline driven animation tool in flash and we have a good vector animation tool in illustrator. synergy or something :s

as a side note vb.net is the worst most pathetic attempt at redoing a language i have ever seen, not a good example from a purist or user perspective

[mattkenefick]

as a side note vb.net is the worst most pathetic attempt at redoing a language i have ever seen, not a good example from a purist or user perspective

I've posted that several times when referencing the difference between AS2 and AS3 :) I hated that switch to .net

[hangalot]

i like c#, neat clever language. i used to code in basic as a child and always kept up with it, but the .net implementation was just HOOOORIBle.

from as1 to as2 we had all the same gripes, its funny seeing it again :)

[mattkenefick]

Yeah I remember the AS1-2 complaints. Oh well.

There needs to be something to talk about I guess =]

[senocular]

If/when they plan on open the .fla format so that flash files can be version controlled in a team environment.

- Although I'm sure a lot of our questions can be answered by Sen.

some things I can't disclose : ) (and some things I might be able to but am unsure so I better just keep a lid on it)

[hangalot]

the secret to find things out is to go to conferences and make engineers reeeeaaalllly drunk

[mattkenefick]

the secret to find things out is to go to conferences and make engineers reeeeaaalllly drunk

don't send me, i'll get drunk and forget my mission :)

[CyanBlue]

I tried that... Didn't work... :(

[MichaelxxOA]

some things I can't disclose : ) (and some things I might be able to but am unsure so I better just keep a lid on it)

lol, I know man, it's understandable :)

[Cota]

yay...time for my 2 cents...Designers are not forgotten..designers are not left behind....designers have chosed to stay behind. Technology evolves, this is just a simple truth in life and you can take it to the bank. You either evolve with it, or write posts complaining that you cant do it and its unfair. When I work in photoshop, do you think anyone cares when I say, "it isnt programmer friendly.." No...get realistic here. Actionscript 1, 2, or 3 is a LANGUAGE. Its not a color pallete, or a brush, or any other design tool. For those that are complaining that AS3 isnt designer friendly, think about what you're saying...Actionscript (whatever number you wish) is a language that has evolved over the years. I dont see why/how thats so hard to understand. You want designer friendly things, open photoshop or after effects. Actionscript has always been meant for developers/programmers...if it wasnt, it wouldnt be around...

[atomic]

Going through your profile, just noticed that you're facing another major change in your life, this upcoming weekend... The big 30! As in AS3.0? :p

Maybe time to add weight to your last post above, by re-vamping one of your own designs (Vantastic Limousines for example...) with AS3.0, to see if it would better it's design and/or performance... Showing us the way to progress...

Oh, and happy 30th! ;)

[Cota]

Its not for me to show anyone the way. We all have our own ways. Secondly, ask any one that knows me and they'll tell you...I'm not a fan of AS3..I have a list of reasons, none of which are related to this topic per say.

I'm holding on to 29 for as long as I can...

[Jesse]

OK so I haven't read this whole thread but my take on designer / developer thing is simply that Adobe are trying to push the envelope and make sure there are no limits for programmers. As this happens, the language gets more sophisticated and designers get a little bit bewildered.

That said though, designers can still use their AS1.0 or 2.0 ways, and I think that's a massive indication that Adobe are catering to both (in a pretty impressive way).

What other applications do you know of which let developers have control of 1s and 0s and comply with best practices, yet at the same time lets designers draw pictures, drag and drop and use behaviors as black boxes?

Our differences are our strengths :)

[Jesse]

PS - it's a healthy discussion, so keep it going, but don't forget any questions you want to ask Adobe...

[CyanBlue]

To me, M$ Expression is whole lot easier for the designers to do their design works... and it is whole lot harder for the designers to step into the programming portion of the software because C# is simply different than the traditional ActionScript... So, they really need to make up their mind and prepare themselves to jump into both pools whereas you simply need to learn a couple of gotoAndPlay() sort of commands to get the basic interaction done in Flash...

[pixelwit]

Another question: Adobe's anti-piracy efforts seem to do little to thwart piracy yet often decreases the user experience of paying customers. Will Adobe be doing anything to correct this? Will they continue using what some (me) would call an invasive technique to monitor the use of their (my) software?

If anyone is curious to know why I have any knowledge of piracy issues, I was searching for the phrases "Licensing for this product has stopped working" and "License has expired" which are terms related to faulty installations of some CS3 apps but also turned up a few links to the Pirate Bay as suggested "solutions" to the installation problem.

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[mattkenefick]

Why do they leave their file format open to being raped by decompilers?

So much more could be done if everything inside was kept secret.

[haznut]

I´m taking the designer´s side for this question: Why do they keep denying us the benefit of a "scale all" checkbox when manipulating the movie size, so we won´t have to virtually redo the site when changing dimensions??????????? Photoshop has it!!!! hehehe:p

Now, the question is, Why don´t they sale licenses for home offices? A student or a very small business project can´t afford sometimes the price of software like a big studio or agency can. Maybe in the states or europe, the price is kinda affordable...but in a whole lot of other countries, the price somethimes quads the original list price. Imagine paying u$ 3200 for a copy of Photoshop.
I see that they take all the market as one (comercially speaking), when actually it´s very wide.
Dunno if i´m wrong about this, but over here (latin america), that´s the scenario.
Cheers!