What are your plans when Flash is discontinued?

[ultraky]

I'm curious how others are prepping them selves when Adobe gives the Flash IDE the axe.

I always had the inclination for code, so I went ahead and jumped over to flex, and haven't looked back. So far I'm running like a train - with so much to learn. It's great. I do miss workin' n photoshop, but I'm able to sneak it in every once in a while.

What is everyone else doing...or are some not getting doing anything?

[ASWC]

he he, don't worry about Flash, it's not gonna disappear soon. For now, you should just wish that Flex will have the same future that Flash had back in 1994...

[ultraky]

Looking at all the moves that Adobe has done with Flash and Flex since Macromedia was acquired, it's looks obvious to me that Flash IDE will be discontinued in 2 years or so.

I don't understand your allusion to Flash in 1994? Flash didn't even exist. There was FutureSplash, but that was in 1996.

Can you explain what you mean?

[ASWC]

the develpement of FutureSplash by jonatan Gay started in 1994 but anyway don't play the date game that's two years old stuff. Adobe should hire you to plan its commercial strategy and get rid in two years of one of their most lucrative products. it's funny to see some Flex developers or Flash developers arguing about which one of these products shouldn't exist, the truth is, both products have their place abd their market and none of them will disappear unless people start to turn away from them, in the case of Flash, we are far from that.

[ultraky]

It seems that you have little experience using both these applications. Your use of the word "flash developer" is cute. Whatever people that you hang around with who argue Flash vs. Flex are as clueless as you.

1. Ever since Adobe acquired Flash, it has been divorcing code away from the app. Version 9 saw the axe of "behaviours" - a shortcut to add functionality to items. This version also saw the implementation of the "document" class and discourages coding onto the timeline. Version 10 (at this point) does not offer any enchancements to the coding API.

2. The .fla is being discontinued. In it's place the .xfl format is taking over. This will will allow direct access to resources that can be shared between all of Adobe's products. Animations can be edited with After Effects, bitmaps can be reworked with photoshop, and vector art can be manipulated - all from one file and without disturbing each other.

3. Actionscript 3 has been upgraded to a "real" programming language.

4. Flash's animation engine is being retooled to perform similar to the After Effects engine and after effects is receiving more upgrades to output bandwidth friendly animations.

5. Thermo replaces any need to use flash at all. Instead it acts as a code generator, much like dreamweaver. Graphic design is created with illustrator or photoshop, then user interface is designated with thermo.

6. Adobe is actively guiding "flash developers" to use Flex for coding. There are countless articles and eSeminars on Adobes site that encourage Actionscript to be written in Flex.

7. Using Flex, does not mean you have to use the Flex frame work. If you used Flex (or understood how it worked) you would know this.

8. Look at Silverlight and it's workflow - using Expression Blend for font end and leaving out .net development for another app. Adobe is clearly moving in this direction.

I'd go on, but I've lost interest in explaining what can easily be found if one simply pays attention.

[ASWC]

You think you got it all figured out? You're just funny.

[newblack]

@ultraky:
it's not a great idea to make statements about replies to your thread that are mean and worse, irrelevant. but since you did...

7. Using Flex, does not mean you have to use the Flex frame work. If you used Flex (or understood how it worked) you would know this. you would get lol'd at so hard where i work for use of this terminology.

you reason some pretty absurd assumptions by mention of software that hasn't even been released yet. i for one am not looking forward to Thermo's release- nothing's less fun than making something work when it already looks like it works from the outside.

3. Actionscript 3 has been upgraded to a "real" programming language.ActionScript 3 has never been upgraded (i know what you meant, but still, lol- you have no idea how hard it is to not point out the ~3500 grammatical errors in your posts). the development of a language says nothing of the software from which it was born. i don't see a single justification (valid or otherwise) you've listed that would lead Adobe to lop off software they sell for 700 USD in the quantity that they do.

of course there's been a divergence, but that conversation happened 2 and a half years ago... Good things came from that, like the ability to use a real IDE for writing ActionScript. And bad things came from it, like your attitude.

[Paul Ferrie]

I saw the post title and thought there would be an interesting read in here.
I wasn't wrong.

If flash was discontinued tomorrow i would just go back to my Forklift driving job and dream about the good times :)

With flash anyone could site down and quickly make something happen.
I was a jack the lad 10-12 years ago djing. i didn't have a computer. i sure as hell didnt think that 10 years later i would be fulltime freelance developer.
If they lose this easy(pickup/learn) approach then that would would be the end of flash. I personally feel it was this that made flash the success that it is today.

just my 2 cents in an interesting thread.

[ultraky]

So... are you going to offer any counter argument, or only vauge allusions to my grammar. Is this all you can do?

If you think I am wrong, prove it. Not to say you can't but don't talk outta your arse. I have a theory, which is strongly supported by facts. Of course I am inteterested in a dialouge, but you just shouldn't disperse critisism without providing alternate facts - besides "Adobe makes money from it"


you would get lol'd at so hard where i work for use of this terminology.

What exactly gets "lol'd"? Because I accidently included a space in the word "framework"? The term "framework" is one that is habitually misused and abused within the community. A framework is a set of logically related classes that provide a solid structure through an API that promotes encapsulation and consists of one or more base classes that is extended to build application code.

How did I use this incorrectly?


you reason some pretty absurd assumptions by mention of software that hasn't even been released yet.

I have made no assumptions. All that I have stated is what has been released publicly by Adobe.


ActionScript 3 has never been upgrade


Of course not silly, it just came out sheesh....


l- you have no idea how hard it is to not point out the ~3500 grammatical errors in your posts

And this has what to do with the future of Flash.....? Do you have anything to say regarding the issue or just smug ambiguous remarks?

<sigh>

[ultraky]

With flash anyone could site down and quickly make something happen.
[B]I was a jack the lad 10-12 years ago djing. i didn't have a computer. i sure as hell didnt think that 10 years later i would be fulltime freelance

Excellent point! This is exactly what I'm interested in talking about.

Imagine tho, picking it up now. You would have to learn an Object-Orientated language (AS3), to successfully add interaction to your program. One can't use the simple AS1 language to add in interaction.

I think this is where Thermo is to come in. Adobe has recognized that:

1. In order to compete with Silverlight, they will need a robust language to drive the app.

2. Someone just cant 'drop in on Flash' and start typing away Object orientated code- in the same way that was don't 5 years ago.

[Flash Gordon]

7. Using Flex, does not mean you have to use the Flex frame work. If you used Flex (or understood how it worked) you would know this.
I believe your error comes here:
Flex is a highly productive, free open source framework for building and maintaining expressive web applications that deploy consistently on all major browsers, desktops, and operating systems. While Flex applications can be built using only the free Flex SDK, developers can use Adobe® Flex® Builder™ 3 software to dramatically accelerate development.
By definition, yes, using Flex means using the Flex framework.


You would have to learn an Object-Orientated language (AS3), to successfully add interaction to your program.Nope....there is absolutely nothing stopping you from putting code on the timeline. Currently, actionscript is not a fully OO language.

[Paul Ferrie]

Someone just cant 'drop in on Flash' and start typing away Object orientated code- in the same way that was don't 5 years ago.
Yeah but it was nearly the death of flash. I can remember hearing constantly that flash was bad because it took so long to download. I have lost count at the amount times explaining to clients that this would be a result of people building bad flash site and not flash. the same people if where using photoshop a dreamer would probably have a jpeg at 500kb and think that was ok oh wait that did actually happen!

My site was built before the broadband revolution and was optimized for 56k users. Even now 5 years on the main swf for the site is only 155kb
Even now i see peeps posting question about why there swf is 2mb and if thats ok. 5-6 years ago it certainly was not.
Personally i would find this unacceptable even by todays standards.
The broadband revolution definetly played it part though. Then the ease of getting video into flash soon followed.

[newblack]

I'm sorry if i was too vague, or "vauge", whatever that is.
I have made no assumptions. All that I have stated is what has been released publicly by Adobe.
"5. Thermo replaces any need to use flash at all." Oh, OK, sorry. I thought this was an assumption; my mistake.

"3. Actionscript 3 has been upgraded to a "real" programming language." This isn't biased speculation? What does "real" mean? How does this have anything to do with Flash "getting the axe in 2 years"?

It seems that you have little experience using both these applications.What even gave you this idea? How pompous are you? Yet again though, my apologies, I took this to be assumption as well.

I'd go on, but I've lost interest in explaining what can easily be found if one simply pays attentionCan I drop the sarcasm? I think you get the point.

What exactly gets "lol'd"?
You saying "using Flex" alongside a snide remark ("or understood how it worked"). Flex, as you point out is a framework. Flex Builder is a plugin for Eclipse. I'm exaggerating a little less than you do with comments like "Your use of the word "flash developer" is cute"- But still, you'd get totally lol'd. While not meant as an analogy, it's on par with saying "I have the internet on my computer".

Of course I am inteterested in a dialouge, but you just shouldn't disperse critisism without providing alternate facts - besides "Adobe makes money from it"What could be a more pertinent fact? All of your "facts", on the other hand, merely note, as everyone else did 2 years ago, that Flash as a platform is changing.

You're entitled to your opinion- and I could care less if there's never another Flash IDE release. But you were an outright jerk in response to someone participating in your dialog. Your behavior, like your "facts" are unfounded.

[ultraky]

<sigh>

Unfortunatly, this thread is being taken into tangents that have little or nothing to do with why I started it. Instead, people are picking apart posts and attempting to validate their point by attacking other's comments out of context.

I only will lastly comment:

To Flash Gordon:

If I open Flex and create one file, one class, I am not using the Flex framework. I might as well been using text edit. If I implement the mxml language into a project, that is what *I* would consider using the Flex framework.

I am not an expert on what is and isn't OOP, but I never qualified Actionscript's place as an Objet-Orientated language.

Your totally right, one can put code on the timeline, but I believe that practice is being phased out in it's implementation.

Something else I do wonder out loud is if there are any plans to integrate After Effects programming language with Actionscript. That would be nice.

To the other guy:

Dude, bring something to the conversation other than mockery, really... Also learn some better humor, I suggest starting with knock-knock jokes, then work your way up to "The Three Stooges".

My typing is part of my charm, I simply cannot part with it.

[newblack]

I think you're being a whiny hypocrite and that you've received exactly what you've given.

To try to end on a nicer note, though, I'll try to bring the thread back on topic.

What are your plans when Flash is discontinued?
nothing

[ASWC]

I am not an expert on what is and isn't OOP
Yeah, I figured this one out... For instance you can write procedural code with C++, does that mean people should give up writing C++? I think you show that you have no clue about what OOP is for.
It seems that you have little experience using both these applications.
I hope my customers are not gonna read that, or maybe they should and get a good laugh.
the truth is, both products have their place and their market and none of them will disappear unless people start to turn away from them
Amazing that you cannot even agree with that. I work regulary with FLex developers and I never met one that was that close minded, probably the reason is that it's hard to learn and improve your coding skills when you think you know already everything like you do.

[atomic]

I don't care if they get rid of it... The CS3 application is slower than the Flash 8 one and it definately looks too Macish...
I'm always expecting the dreaded ball of doom to popup... http://marbleofdoom.com/
As it will soon appear in this thread, after all those nice comments about each other!

[Flash Gordon]

To Flash Gordon:
If I open Flex and create one file, one class, I am not using the Flex framework. I might as well been using text edit. If I implement the mxml language into a project, that is what *I* would consider using the Flex framework.
I think that is the point. You can't "open Flex and create one file." You can however open Flex Builder and create one file. And in that instance, of course you don't necessary have to be working with the Flex framework. It sounds like you are confusing the two and I was just pointing that out.

[maskedMan]

Even after it is someday discontinued, there will likely be a demand for it for several years afterwards. I mean, how long did you (and indeed do you still) find people advertising for jobs using Director after Flash attained its dominance?

I suppose at that point though, once Flash, the swf, and all of it is "discontinued" and no longer supported on any browser, I'll probably either use the closest analogous tool or I'll adopt a proper programming language.

[Cota]

Let me start off by saying this ultraky, insults, directly or indirectly, at other members, not such a good idea. You want to have a discussion, but all means, discuss. However, do not badger and attempt to belittle other members as you did. You feel strongly abouty our views, so do others. However, to assume you know better, or take the stance of superiority as you did would be a sad mistake. There are members here that have defined Flash, and hell, flat out had a hand in its direction. So play nice, and be a little more respectful to fellow members.

Flash, its not going anywhere. There is a demand for it. You think Adobe would really discontinue one of its biggest money makers? If you honestly think they would, then I have a bridge to sell you. Trust me, it isnt going anywhere for a long time.

The Flash -vs- Flex arguement has taken place time and time again. I code mostly in Flex, and use the flash IDE for hand animations and templated items. On a side note, FlexBuilder 3 is bad ass!

To the point 0f the matter, you asked what people would do if Flash were discontinued, and you allowed yourself to turn this into a debate over the future of Flash. Stay focused man!

All that said, if Flash (Actionscript development) went bye bye, I'd more than likely fall back on my love for cars. Rebuilding old muscle cars, designing and building body kits for them. Although. I hear being a pan-handler on the subway is a nice career.

[Assertnfailure]

It's easy to discredit Flash if you only focus on a subset of SWF-generated projects, namely, RIAs. If I'm building a content management system, or a photo gallery, or something that has a rigid UI interface, then Flex seems like the obvious bet.

However, try building a fancy microsite or game in Flex...
Try creating something simple, like a picture of a car that has hotspots around different parts of the car. In these cases, you'll either find yourself spending most of your time building components from scratch or, worse, an app that continuously bogs down because the Flex framework isn't optimized for what you're trying to do and is much heavier than writing something from scratch.

For example, a current project of mine is a game that looks like this:
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/games/gympartner/hallofthewild/

Right now I'm building the engine in a pure AS3 project in Flex Builder 3, but eventually I will transition it to Flash CS3, to leverage the greater visual control and animation that flash provides. I can't even fathom making something like this with the Flex framework!

One final note:
There's nothing special about a purely development environment. Most languages are like this. What gave actionscript the competitive advantage in the first place, and ultimately allowed it to expand across many different avenues to get to where it is today, is because of the bridge Flash provides between form and function. Did you know that some EA (I think it was EA, it was definitely one of those big name companies) console games have used Flash within just the past few years to create their gui elements? Would they have adopted Flex instead if Flash didn't exist?

They're different tools that each have their own unique competitive advantages.

[ASWC]

Here is my plan:
While some Flex developers argue that Flash should disappear, and while some Flash developers argue that Flex should have never existed, I'm gonna keep using both, try to get the better of them, and have fun!:p

[asf8]

Just something interesting.... exactly one year ago to the day you posted this thread,



04-13-2007, 02:23 AM - Where to put this peice of code?

When the image is called (test_btn.onRelease) I want it to fade in. Where do i put this tween: photoFade = newTween(this,"_alpha",none,50,100,.5,true);

Now one year later to the day your posting like you know more Flex and Flash than any other user here (and perhaps on the internet, since this topic has been thoroughly discussed previously)... atleast thats kind of the feedback I read here.

Anyway as Cota mentioned, this place is full of extremely knowledgeable advanced users (myself excluded as I am still admittedly very much learning ;-) and to open a discussion and then not wish to recieve feedback from these people is kind of silly ;-)

Anyway I just thought that was interesting that it was to the day (4/13/07 -&- 4/13/08) ;)

[ultraky]

However, try building a fancy microsite or game in Flex...
Try creating something simple, like a picture of a car that has hotspots around different parts of the car.

Good point, but this is where I argue that Adobe is heading with Thermo, and in general. As we see with many technologies, is the trend for languages who are at first edited and created via only through text, move toward a GUI that generates code.

I will use HTML as an example, there are a myriad of programs that allow some to create a complete HTML website, without typing one line of code. Right now we have these devingneers and desolpers who have to franticly learn and use AS3 to make buttons and sliders, but don't have much time to study it throughly. This is what has spawned lots of "hacks" code.

From all the information I have read and watched, from Adobe directly, the example of a simple car with hot spots would be what Thermo could do. One would draw the car in Illustrator or Photoshop, then create the user interface with Thermo. So far the explanation of Thermo was to "prep" a project for Flex, but it's purpose (as a GUI code generator) has far reaching implications.


* I had no idea this thread was still going! After just reading the subsequent posts, and especially Cota's well measured post, I believe that no one was ignorant, but rather terms were used that were intrepeted differently.

My original post referred to "Flash", this was the genesis of a lot of confusion. I was referring to the application whose current name is "Adobe Flash CS3" not "Flash" the technology. I should have been more specific, but I assumed everyone knew what I meant.

The technology "Flash" will be around for quite some time.

Another huge confusion was "Flex", "Flex Builder" and the "Flex Framework".

The Flex Framework *IS* Flash (the technology).

Any argument of a Flex vs. Flash is moot. The Flex Framework uses XML to referrence Actionscript 3 componets and behaviours.

Rather, the argument should be referred to as simply wheather to use the "Flex Framework" in an application.

It seems the proper use of the term "Flex" would denote the "Flex Framework", but as "Flex Builder" has gained popularity, especially among those moving from Flash (application), "Flex Builder" is frequently truncated to "Flex". How often does one say "open up Flex" when they are referring to "Flex Builder".

I will offer an apology to whoever does understand the relationship, but misinterpreted my comments and then attacked those comments and then I them.

[asf8]

Imagine tho, picking it up now. You would have to learn an Object-Orientated language (AS3), to successfully add interaction to your program. One can't use the simple AS1 language to add in interaction.

2. Someone just cant 'drop in on Flash' and start typing away Object orientated code- in the same way that was don't 5 years ago.

Ummm...... lets say someone buys Flash CS3 today, they can use AS1/AS2 and start building stuff the same day with milions of tutorials/source/samples/forum posts, to help them without having to learn AS3 out of the box.

ActionScript 2.0, was introduced in September 2003 with the release of Flash MX 2004.

So the reference to 5 years ago would be, yeah, they could do the exact same thing they could 5 years ago, they can even use AS1 if they want to [AVM1/AVM2] :)

2006–today: ActionScript 3.0 In June 2006, ActionScript 3.0 debuted with Adobe Flex 2.0 and its corresponding player, Flash Player 9. ActionScript 3.0 was a fundamental restructuring of the language, so much so that it uses an entirely different virtual machine. Flash Player 9 contains two virtual machines, AVM1 for code written in ActionScript 1.0 and 2.0, and AVM2 for content written in ActionScript 3.0. ActionScript 3.0 provides not only a significant enhancement in performance, but also a more robust programming model that lends itself to complex Rich Internet Application development.

Right now we have these devingneers and desolpers who have to franticly learn and use AS3 to make buttons and sliders, but don't have much time to study it throughly. This is what has spawned lots of "hacks" code.

What are devingneers and desolpers ? Are those industry buzz terms I should know? ;-)

But again there is no need for someone with Flash CS3 to be forced to franticly learn AS3 as you have stated, as they can use AS1/AS2 as I described above with millions of resources available.

So there is not really a valid point in those comments you made. :p However the same can NOT be said about Flex, can it?

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ultraky (NYC) are you really mattkenefick (NYC), because your earlier attitude towards others is almost identical. Are you in disguise here Matt?

:o:eek:

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Here is my plan: While some Flex developers argue that Flash should disappear, and while some Flash developers argue that Flex should have never existed, I'm gonna keep using both, try to get the better of them, and have fun!

Good point ASWC, I mean what has sat still since the technology revolution began, things are constantly changing so the best any of us can do is try to learn and stay current and then adjust with the technology and changes. Or as Paul said drive a forklift ;-)

Also ultraky make sure you read my previous post since we posted one minute apart you may have missed it. http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showpost.php3?p=731625&postcount=23