Give up? [Archive] - ActionScript.org Forums

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FEK315

05-27-2008, 09:35 PM

Hey All,
I have been working in flash since 1998, I consider myself a designer / intermediate coder. The problem is I just suck at all of it. When it comes to coding I just don't get anything beyond scripting buttons. I understand some boolean ideas but creating widgets is just an alien world. I am embarrassed to tell you this because any one who has been working in Flash for over 3 years should know how to code. I love working in Flash but no one will hire me with out having extensive knowledge in code or a concept of programing. And I can't get proficient at coding with out a job. For a while I did have a Flash Job, but after the DotComCrash, I got laided off and since then I can't get a job. Believe it or not I have used numerous books, from Moock to Friends of ED, I have copied hundreds of tutorials, some times they work most times they don't. I don't have the money for classes. I know more about Flash then most beginners but with the coming out AS4 I am just ready to give up. I am frustrated and hopeless.
What would you do?

ASWC

05-27-2008, 11:58 PM

If you look at these forums you can see that a lot of people have a very basic knowledge of coding in general and actionscript in particular. Still some of them apparently work full time as actionscript coder so there's still hope for you. As far as learning goes, I would say you should learn coding principles in general rather than just actionscript language because understanding what's going on is the most important step in learning programmation.

yell0wdart

05-28-2008, 03:47 AM

One book that helped me get started on my path from designer to developer was "Beginning Programming For Dummies". Seriously. It helped me get a lot of the basics down. I'd recommend starting with something like that, then get into a basic scripting tutorial or book. Lynda.com has some great Flash tutorials as well.

For a long time, I was in your boat. Code made no sense to me beyond HTML. I couldn't write a line of original code to save my life... anything beyond a basic "Hello World" app was out of my league. I started reading lots after I read that Dummies book... now I get paid good money to write C# full time (taught myself in about 6 months, now I do it professionally), and still do some Flash/AS stuff freelance on the side if/when I can't do it in ASP.NET/C#/AJAX.

IMO, classes are overrated. Some are good, but most programming teachers I've had were self-important jerks who didn't care about teaching practical (real-world) programming, design patterns or any of the important OOP stuff... they just wanted you to use limited means to solve their lame problems to prove that you were learning the syntax.

Bottom line: if you like doing it, keep at it.

helpNeeded=true

05-28-2008, 04:39 PM

I have copied hundreds of tutorials, some times they work most times they don't.you are supposed to follow tutorial, not copy it. And if it doesn't work, you are supposed to find out why. Otherwise, tutorial is no more useful than average youtube video.

evride

05-28-2008, 08:45 PM

i highly suggest www.gotoandlearn.com

the ones at the top are actionscript 3 and the ones at the bottom are older Actionscript 2 vids.

these are free video tutorials and are great. just work along with it, listen to him explain it and you should be good.

also, in Flash 10 im pretty sure its just actionscript 3 with a couple more classes and 3D support. it would be like the Flash MX 2004 to Flash 8 change just a little more extreme.

FEK315

05-28-2008, 09:23 PM

I took your advice and bought Programing for Dummies, so far it seems to be exactly what I need. It's answering a lot of questions, ones I thought I was the only one who asked.

Usually, I copy a tutorial and try to make it work in my projects, often I can't make them work. A lot of the time I just expect the code to work and don't realize that it takes time. See I understand what the code is doing but I don't understand why it is written the way it is. It seems I am missing the basics.
Recently, I read that 83% of a coders work is correcting and testing the code. When I read that it helped a lot.

Thank you for the linda.com and GotoAndLearn resources.
after reading so far I am not sure if I want to go into C# or ActionScript first. It would seem if I go into C#, I could get a grasp on AS with no problem, but if I went from AS to C# I would have a much harder time.
I am almost sure I want to work on the web or games.
What do you all think?

thank you all
Fek315

evride

05-29-2008, 06:16 AM

web = flash.
webgames = flash.

asf8

05-29-2008, 04:14 PM

@ FEK315, if its something you desire to do then giving up is not really an option. The first thing to realize is there will always be learning curves (software updates, coding changes/updates, new programming languages to learn, etc..), in addition there will always be others with more knowledge than yourself. Dont let either of these two facts discourage you in your pursuit of your career. But instead look at it as a challenge to improve your own skills. Regarding AS4, I dont think it will be a new language by any means but a further progression or rather further additions to AS3. It wont be like learning AS3 from AS2. Also take encouragement in the fact that most of the Flash Gurus everyone talks about across the web are generally self taught, so there is no reason you or anyone else can not do the same and also achieve success ;-) Its a good idea to get a solid understanding of programming concepts that carry across any language as a foundation for your learning as mentioned above by others. Its a learning process for everyone, technology moves fast. But if its something you wish to do then there is no reason to give up on things.

Another thing I wanted to mention is you joined in March of 2004 (over 4 years ago) and have 65 posts, get invloved here in the community, its a wonderful place to learn from others and advance your knowledge. So interact, ask questions, etc...

Just curious what is your present profession then? I also wanted to compliment you on your artwork/paintings. ;-)

Stay encouraged and work hard at learning, its surely possible but like anything it takes hard work and determination. Again stay encouraged!

FEK315

05-29-2008, 07:47 PM

FEK315

05-29-2008, 08:24 PM

What do you think about learning REALbasic and then going to AS?
Or is Flash similar to REALbasic with syntax differences.
It seems I could buy REALbasic for $100 (hobbyist edition)or $500(business edition). and Flash10 for $199, at least I think i could upgrade from 8 to 10 other wise it looks like $700.
Which would be a better investment for learning the programming and programming for the web ?

FEK315

FEK315

05-29-2008, 08:50 PM

web = flash.
webgames = flash.
I just saw this. It sounds like Flash is the investment to make.
TNX Evdog!

FEK315

asf8

05-29-2008, 08:51 PM

Should I be learning AS4? I didn't really have the money to buy it so i have been using Flash 8 that a friend gave me. Is that AS2 or AS3?I was kind of waiting until the new Flash came out before I bought it again, mainly because of the animation advancements it has.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMI480D668

Right now, I Bartend and work on my web business but the 2 clash when I get an opportunity to contract. I am trying to get more web clients so i can leave Bartending. I have been working this way for 4 years. Bartending is fun but I am getting burned out. Its okay money but I can't get any more money then what I am making now, besides as you can tell I am a creative type and I want to get money for creating and designing.
I like the advice about self taught, its just some times you reach the limit of you knowledge and you need to upgrade and that is were I am now.What do you think about learning REALbasic and then going to AS? Or is Flash similar to REALbasic with syntax differences. It seems I could buy REALbasic for $100 (hobbyist edition)or $500(business edition). and Flash10 for $199, at least I think i could upgrade from 8 to 10 other wise it looks like $700. Which would be a better investment for learning the programming and programming for the web ?

Ummmm.... Where are you seeing Flash 10 (CS4) for sale already ? Link?

Flash 8 = AS1/AS2
Flash CS3 = AS2/AS3
Flash CS4 = AS2?/AS3/AS4?(I doubt it)

I doubt if it would hurt you to use Flash 8 and AS2 if your knowledge is as limited as you say, however since your in learning mode and AS3 is different and also how the future of Flash coding will be then it wouldnt be wrong to skip AS2 and start learning AS3 so your not confused further perhaps. But will the jobs your seeking require AS2 or AS3 is another question, alot of companies still use AS2 and even in some cases AS1.

I dont think CS4 will have AS4, if it does it will be AS3 with some extra additions/features (I am guessing). But since your at Flash 8 the question is what will the upgrade cost be from Flash 8 to CS4 verses CS3 to CS4, and also when the heck is CS4 even going to release (summer/fall etc..?) So if you make the commitment to learning AS3 you would need to upgrade to CS3 for coding AS3 in the IDE. Of course you can learn the concepts without it but actual coding testing is always optimal hands on.

If you want to get really confused you can download the Flex SDK 3.0.x Flash Player 10. (Free)
http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Targeting+Flash+Player+10+Beta+with+Flex+SDK+3.0.x and gotoandlearn is already releasing tutorials on it and the new features which will be in Flash http://www.gotoandlearn.com/player.php?id=73 & http://www.gotoandlearn.com. Senocular also has a tutorial on some of the new features coming out... http://www.senocular.com/flash/tutorials/flash10drawingapi/

So I guess its your decision on AS2/AS3 and then decide if you need to upgrade to CS3 etc...

Keep in mind this are just some thoughts and opinions, I am still using Flash 8 also, but learning/researching AS3 all the time as well.

These are just my 2 cents, someone else might advise completely different. I just wanted to reply as I too at times feel overwhelmed with learning non-stop and wanted to encourage you if I could.

RealBasic ? I mean general programing concepts that carry over to all/most languages cant hurt learning... but try to remain focused some ;-) http://www.realsoftware.com/products/realbasic/language.php it sounds like it would have basic concepts in common but will it confuse you more if you have had trouble learning actionscript in the past ?

You have confused me now FEK315, maybe someone elase can give you better advice. I just feel your kind of all over the play... C#, RealBasic, etc... I think you need to focus on your intentions. Especially since you said learning Actionscript was difficult in the past.

Regardless, stay encouraged with learning.

I just saw this. It sounds like Flash is the investment to make.
TNX Evdog!

Keep in mind there is alot more to the web than Flash ;-)

FEK315

05-29-2008, 09:46 PM

Sorry about being all over the place, I think it is a glimpse into my state of mind right now and why I am so frustrated. It sounds like it might be a good idea to learn some AS2 and once I have a handle on go to AS3. This way I can be prepared for the future of Flash.
Maybe i don't need the upgrade just yet, maybe by the time they come out with the next version of Flash I will be ready to tackle AS3.

I appreciate all of your advice and thoughts. Reading this Dummies book has shed a light on understanding what it is I have been trying doing for the last few years with Flash. If it were not for all your responses I would really be thinking of giving up.
"I think you need to focus on your intentions. Especially since you said learning Actionscript was difficult in the past." asf8

I agree and you have helped me quite a bit in understanding what I need to concentrate on.
I need to understand the basics of programming, then AS2 then AS3 with an upgrade to CS3, FLEX, then XML, PHP,.....and the other scripts .
:)

TNX!

FEK315

ASWC

05-29-2008, 11:01 PM

web = flash.
webgames = flash.
Careful as this is just an opinion and far from being a fact. The fact is Flash seems more and more to be the best choice for web games, as for the web in general, XHTML dynamic server side ganerated is used on most website creation today with Flash being only an occasional experiment. AJAX took a big part in the client side development and is in use in many major website.
Java is also a big deal for the web from server engine to serverside scripting while it's really backing up for the client side but it's still in use for live chat and such.

FEK315

05-29-2008, 11:14 PM

Are AJAX AND JAVA OOP?

FEK315

evride

05-29-2008, 11:26 PM

Careful as this is just an opinion and far from being a fact. The fact is Flash seems more and more to be the best choice for web games, as for the web in general, XHTML dynamic server side ganerated is used on most website creation today with Flash being only an occasional experiment. AJAX took a big part in the client side development and is in use in many major website.
Java is also a big deal for the web from server engine to serverside scripting while it's really backing up for the client side but it's still in use for live chat and such.

He gave two choices C++ and Flash, and I was telling him flash was better than C++ for those two things. I wasnt saying that there weren't other options out there.

AJAX is a combination of languages, or actually a language and a method of formatting data. Javascript is similar to actionscript (more 2 than 3) and is object oriented. the method of formatting data in AJAX is with XML. the xml you load from the server "behind the scenes." its really easy to learn how to use XML so its not a big deal. Java is also similar to flash in coding structure and is object oriented also. a note:Javascript and Java are not the same.

ASWC

05-30-2008, 01:54 AM

My bad, I misunderstood the meaning of your assumptions. AJAX is just javascript and XML, the first "A" standing for asyncronous which we know the meaning very well with actionscript! As for OOP, javascript is "kinda" OOP but not really. You can write prototypes but no classes. A big javascript fan and specialist would probably argue and say it's fully OOP, but I leave that to everyone to decide. Java is really the big deal and there's no limits in what you can do with it.

evride

05-30-2008, 09:07 AM

Java is really the big deal and there's no limits in what you can do with it.

false. i can't make a pizza with it. i can't dance with it. I can't time travel with it...

and i've run outta ideas.

anyways, for the most dynamic web development you have Java, php, asp, and perl for server-side web programming (i suggest php cause its easy to learn and cheaper to use than the others) and Java, Flash, AJAX, and now silverlight for the front end. as a flash fan-boy i suggest flash. it works in almost every browser (even tho some browsers have old versions) and you do not have to program for browser differences.

all programming languages have similar things to them and so you can take at least some of what you learned in one language to another language. so just choose one or several of those languages to get started on and learn. you don't want to keep stalling cause you will never get anywhere.

actionscript 2 was the first somewhat decent programming language i learned. it was a really slow process cause i didnt have any books and didnt know about adobe livedocs. im not even sure if my dialup back then would have loaded it in a reasonable amount of time anyways. but i didnt really start learning how to program until i grew a pair and turned off script assist lol. the error reports helped me on my way to learning until i finally got an AS2 book, Flash 8 Actionscript:Training from the Source by Jobe Makar and Danny Patterson. it was my first introduction to clean code. make simple stupid stuff, read all the resources you can on it and work your way up.

FormerSwinger

05-30-2008, 02:27 PM

I would'nt invest anything.
From my point if view all that count's is understanding how software works. With a good understanding of the basics and knowledge of one language it's really easy to start using a new language.

I myself for example am I self thought Java programmer then I swithed to as and js. The transition was relatively easy. Ofcourse all languages have their own specialities but if you know your basics you can adapt quickly.

Since your goal is as I would suggest you practice with any ecmaScript language, the syntax is same with as.

hmm. Is'nt there a free as compiler? I remember reading that you could compile swfs from code but you could not animate with timelines. So you might want to google that...

asf8

05-30-2008, 06:05 PM

I would'nt invest anything.......

hmm. Is'nt there a free as compiler? I remember reading that you could compile swfs from code but you could not animate with timelines. So you might want to google that...

Here are a few:

Flex+SDK+3.0.x - AS3
http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Targeting+Flash+Player+10+Beta+with+Flex+SDK+3.0.x

MTASC -- AS1 & AS2 Compiler
http://www.mtasc.org/#download
http://www.pasz.com/articles/installmtasc/

FLASC + MTASC (Flash IDE extension Flash 7/8)
http://osflash.org/projects/flasc

HAXE -- AS1 to AS3 Compiler (MTASC successor)
http://haxe.org/doc/intro

Eclipse
http://www.eclipse.org/
http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=F3ECF

FlashDevelop
http://osflash.org/flashdevelop

SE|PY
http://www.sephiroth.it/python/sepy.php

Ming
http://us2.php.net/manual/en/intro.ming.php

@ FEK315, again not trying to confuse you, but since it was brought up I thought I would post those.

ASWC

05-30-2008, 06:12 PM

false. i can't make a pizza with it. i can't dance with it. I can't time travel with it...

Well, in europe they have these pizza vending machines driven with Java so I guess you can make a pizza with it! As for time travel, if it was possible Java could do it! As dancing, if there was a dancing robot, Java could run it! But not actionscript...

asf8

05-30-2008, 06:55 PM

Well, in europe they have these pizza vending machines driven with Java so I guess you can make a pizza with it! As for time travel, if it was possible Java could do it! As dancing, if there was a dancing robot, Java could run it! But not actionscript...

Why not with actionscript ? :p:);)

I am sure you could make pizza, have a dancing robot and like you say implement time travel when possible...

http://www.makingthings.com/
http://www.makingthings.com/documentation/tutorial/flash
http://www.phidgets.com/
http://www.phidgets.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=10
http://www.bluemelon.org/index.php/Products/BlueSense_and_Flash_MX

FEK315

05-30-2008, 07:52 PM

Well once i was at a dance were I was served pizza by a doe making robot and we were watching back to the future while drinking coffee... does that count?
:eek:

Thank you all, I am 1/3 of the way through the BPFD book and it seems that with almost every page another light goes on in my head. All these things I have been working on in the last 4 years are suddenly having a consistency of logic to them. One HUGE light bulb is the 3 structures of a program:
1. Sequential information
2. Branching information
3. Looping information

This hit me like a linebacker.

I think one problem I am going to have is telling the computer, step by step, what to do. I just don't quite know how far you need to break down instructions.

BTW: those resources are great, I will try to stay on my path before I really start studying those.

" From my point if view all that count's is understanding how software works. With a good understanding of the basics and knowledge of one language it's really easy to start using a new language."
FormerSwinger
THis is what I am focusing on right now. I am going to finish this Beginning Programing for Dummies book and maybe buy another book like it to make sure I understand, and then work on AS, then when I get a handle on that off to the other web languages and hopefully a job.

I'll look up Flash 8 Actionscript:Training from the Source by Jobe Makar and Danny Patterson. that sounds good. I used friends of ED and Moock but I just didn't understand what it was I was doing.

BTW I wish I could send you all drinks by email for all the help and encouragements you guys have given me
CHEERS!:):D:cool:

FEK315

ASWC

05-30-2008, 08:02 PM

Why not with actionscript ? :p:);)

I am sure you could make pizza, have a dancing robot and like you say implement time travel when possible...

All right, I give it a maybe...

yell0wdart

05-31-2008, 07:17 PM

He gave two choices C++ and Flash, and I was telling him flash was better than C++ for those two things. I wasnt saying that there weren't other options out there.

Not entirely true: He mentioned C# and AS, because I mentioned that I taught myself C#. The OP was asking what he should learn.

In the spirit of answering the OP's question, it really depends what the demand is where you live. Check local job listings to see which one is in more demand. If you want to do lots of programming, then Java and .NET are very good choices. If you like to do both design and development, then AS may be more your cup of tea.

After reading that book, I started with a bit of PHP and AS3. Then I realized nobody in Phoenix wants to hire a PHP or AS3 developer. No good jobs out there. A buddy of mine was a senior systems architect for a local company and suggested .NET. Within 6 months, I taught myself and got a good job.

To answer another question: Yes, Java is an OO language. AJAX is a technology that's been gaining steam over the past several months, but has actually been out for many years. Java is a programming language written by Sun Microsystems. It's a very widely used OO language. AJAX stands for Asynchronous JavaScript and XML. JavaScript is not Java... it's a scripting language that handles client-side processing (client-side is a fancy way of saying that your web browser does the processing, rather than the server). JavaScript got its name from Java, to feed off the buzz around Java in the 90's.

AJAX is a combination of languages, or actually a language and a method of formatting data. Javascript is similar to actionscript (more 2 than 3) and is object oriented. the method of formatting data in AJAX is with XML. the xml you load from the server "behind the scenes." its really easy to learn how to use XML so its not a big deal. Java is also similar to flash in coding structure and is object oriented also. a note:Javascript and Java are not the same.

This is a fairly OK comparison... though some of it isn't entirely accurate. Formatting data for server post in AJAX isn't done only via XML. 99 times out of 100, it's easier to use name/value pairs in the query string to send data over HTTP with AJAX. XML is much slower. Alternatively there is JSON (JavaScript Object Notation), which many (including myself) would say is generally better practice than using XML to format data for transfer. XML is really only in the name AJAX because of the use of the XmlHttpRequest object used to send requests to the server. The request doesn't have to be formatted a certain way... it's just an unfortunate naming mistake. ;)

/edit

Not to say that you'd never use XML to format your data for transfer via AJAX. It's handy for very large or complex chunks of data, but again, more often than not, you'll end up using name/value pairs.

yell0wdart

05-31-2008, 07:29 PM

One other quick note to the OP:

Don't try to limit yourself too much by just choosing one language. Most of the widely used "high level languages" today are very similar and have only a few syntactical differences. The biggest differences you'll find are what's available through software libraries, etc.

Most of them are so similar because they all derive from C.

C++
Java
AS3
C#
PHP
Several more that I'm not thinking of right now.

Once you get the general concepts down, I'd recommend studying OOP principles. At the end of that book you're reading, it'll cover some of them in brief, like inheritance, polymorphism, encapsulation and aggregation. I'd find some books on OOP principles and design patterns. If you're going to teach yourself, best off teaching yourself to do it right. ;)

The Head First series by O'Reilly is a fantastic series. That's probably a good place to start once you're done with that book.

FEK315

06-01-2008, 04:39 AM

I am interested in design and programming, but there are a lot more jobs for .net then AS. What kind of programming can you do with .NET? would it be good to have design experience and program .net?

how is this list for design/ programming? Java, HTML, CSS, PHP, ASP.net, SQL/MySQL, C++, C#, XML, Ajax
I am getting waaaaay ahead of myself?
I kind of want to start looking for work in about 5 months. What would you pick to learn first?

FEK315

yell0wdart

06-01-2008, 06:33 AM

Well, if you're looking to do more web development, then .NET is nice, since you can write your back end code with C# or VB.NET and your markup via ASP.NET. ASP.NET is a technology allows you to use custom tags that create server controls (text boxes, dropdown lists, datagrids, etc) and integrates it with XHTML, and CSS.

Your list is kind of all over the place. I'll break it down a bit for you:

Markup/Formatting Code:
HTML, XHTML, CSS

Client-Side Programming:
JavaScript, ActionScript, ASP.NET (in a lot of cases, ASP.NET controls are handled on the client unless they explicitly have an event tied to them that creates a server post)

Server-Side Programming:
Java, PHP, C#, VB.NET, Ruby, Python, C++ (though C++ isn't very popular for web)

Data Formatting Code:
XML

Data Access Code:
SQL (ANSI-Standard SQL is a good starting point, as all other SQL databases use variations of the standard... MySQL and T-SQL are two popular variations of the standard)

AS and AJAX are kind of different animals. They can fall under a couple different categories:

Both AS and JS are processed on the client. Your browser handles all JS processing. AS is pre-compiled within your .swf file, so all your browser is doing is rendering it on the page.

Though both AS and JS are run on the client, they can issue server requests via HTTP GET, POST or HEAD requests.

Personally, if you're looking to start fast, I'd recommend .NET or Java and know the pillars of OOP and design patterns like the back of your hand. Get your feet wet with lots of reading and lots of coding. I worked my ass off to get where I'm at now. It also helped that I had a very good friend of mine coaching and mentoring me. He'd give me books to read, projects to work on, and coached me through interviews, etc.

I was also very lucky in the sense that I found a job that allowed me to start at a competitive salary while I was still learning. I was very up front to them that I was still very new and had zero real world experience. I blew them away on my "trial" assignment by creating an RSS reader that consumed Yahoo's weather feed and employed a basic MVC architecture to solve their problem. They took a big leap of faith on me, and it's paying off, as I've become very passionate about it.

Not everybody will have the miraculous outcome I had... don't get discouraged if people don't start showering you with job offers as soon as you feel "ready" to start interviewing. If you enjoy it, stay on the horse and keep at it until it pays off. ;)

/edit

Just to give you more background on myself: I went to school and graduated with a Bachelor's in Fine Art. I was aspiring to become a graphic/web designer. I just wanted to make cool looking stuff and not worry as much about the functionality, initially. I couldn't do a lick of coding outside HTML in college... I was too busy partying and having fun to apply myself. Once I started, though, it challenged me to think differently. Creating a new solution, now, is like solving a puzzle. Though I'm a developer, I still get to do a bit of graphical stuff through ASP.NET. I've also got a side business that allows me to do more of the artwork.

Keep one thing in mind: Software development is surprisingly right-brained. You have to think way outside the box and it often takes a lot of creativity and improvisation to come up with a really good solution to a problem.

asf8

06-01-2008, 02:41 PM

....

Some nice posts/info yell0wdart. Thanks.

FEK315

06-02-2008, 08:47 PM

Well I have been at this 4 years and I never seem to let it go. There were a
lot of times I just said "forget this" and walked away for 1 week!
But some how I found myself back on my computer trying to teach myself code. So now I am just going to stop thinking about it and just do it.

My background reads about same as yours, I got a Bachelor's and Masters in Fine Art. I was going to teach. but couldn't find a job because the market is saturated.
When I got into computers, I really wanted to make cool looking things but I found myself more interested in solving puzzles and making things. I see programming as a way to do this.
"I'd recommend .NET or Java and know the pillars of OOP and design patterns like the back of your hand. Get your feet wet with lots of reading and lots of coding."
YellowDart
This sounds GREAT, I need to have a path! Yesterday while bartending I was breaking down all my mixing into Instructional, branching and Looping information. I am trying to get used to thinking a programing fashion.:D

Every interview I have been on in the last 4 years I have always been straight forward with them about my knowledge and experience. I believe this is the first step in making a good business relationship.

So once I get down OOP and Programming Basics I will start with AS then goto .net and JAVA. Do I need to have a PC to learn .net and Java?

FEK315

yell0wdart

06-03-2008, 02:39 AM

Glad to hear you're getting on track. ;)

You can develop on Windows, Mac or Linux. Since .NET is a MS deal, it's easiest to write .NET apps on Windows. If you're a Mac user, you may need to run Paralells, VMWware Fusion or BootCamp to develop in C# or VB.NET. There may be other IDE options aside from VS, but as I do all my development on a Windows box, I'm not sure what Mac can offer outside of VS.

Java is completely cross-platform, so I'm sure there are some good IDE's out there for Java in Mac-land. May need to google around a little bit. I'm a .NET guy... I know enough Java to get by, heh. But I'll defer that recommendation to the Java guys lurking around.

FEK315

06-03-2008, 06:34 PM

yell0wdart

06-03-2008, 07:41 PM

I have an old PC, would you go for .NET or JAVA?
what do you think about:

Object-Oriented Programming for Dummies
and
Design Patterns For Dummies (For Dummies (Computer/Tech)
then
Macromedia Flash 8 ActionScript: Training from the Source by Jobe Makar and Danny Patterson
then
JAVA or .NET

I know you recommenced the last book, but I was wondering about the other 2 and then the order of which to read and work.

FEK315

Well, if you're ultimately wanting to learn AS, then Java might be a little easier, as they're closer in syntax. Check out the Head First books by O'Reilly. IMO, they're better than the Dummies books.

If you're struggling with OOP principles like inheritance, encapsulation and polymorphism, them maybe OOP for Dummies as an optional primer for the Head First books. If you get inheritance, encapsulation and polymorphism, then skip the OOP for Dummies book ;)

Then I'd go with Head First Java, then Head First Design Patterns.

Head First are written with the right-brained individual in mind. Very well written and packed full of good stuff. Just search amazon.com for "head first" and you'll be able to browse the whole series.

Also, there may be a Head First AS book out by now... might be worth a read. I mentioned Java because it's very close to AS3 in syntax, and the Design Patterns book's code samples are all in Java.

ASWC

06-03-2008, 11:57 PM

Well, if you're ultimately wanting to learn AS, then Java might be a little easier.

Wow, I can't agree with this, Java is far more complex than actionscript 2 or 3. Just in terms of classes/libraries Java is like a huge dictionary while actionscript is barely a pocket book...

nite21

06-04-2008, 12:15 AM

BernzSed

06-04-2008, 12:34 AM

Wow, I can't agree with this, Java is far more complex than actionscript 2 or 3. Just in terms of classes/libraries Java is like a huge dictionary while actionscript is barely a pocket book...

Well, yes, but then again, if you're just starting to get into programming, learning to write simple command-line programs without all the bells and whistles of Flash isn't a bad idea.

yell0wdart

06-04-2008, 01:27 AM

Wow, I can't agree with this, Java is far more complex than actionscript 2 or 3. Just in terms of classes/libraries Java is like a huge dictionary while actionscript is barely a pocket book...

Right, but you're missing the context of my earlier posts. My point in saying this was that Java is closer syntactally to AS3 than other languages are, and that if he were to learn Java, then AS3 would be a cake walk. I never mentioned Java was an easier language to learn than AS3 or that it was less complex.

Well, yes, but then again, if you're just starting to get into programming, learning to write simple command-line programs without all the bells and whistles of Flash isn't a bad idea.

This also being an excellent reason to start with Java. Stick to command line stuff early on without all the noise of building a GUI, making database calls, etc.

FEK315

06-04-2008, 01:41 AM

Well I just purchased Head First Java.
I wanted to buy Macromedia Flash 8 ActionScript: Training from the Source by Jobe Makar and Danny Patterson too but I wasn't sure if i would start to get confused between the two languages.
Should I put learning AS on hold for a while?

FEK315

ASWC

06-04-2008, 02:35 AM

Right, but you're missing the context of my earlier posts. My point in saying this was that Java is closer syntactally to AS3 than other languages are, and that if he were to learn Java, then AS3 would be a cake walk. I never mentioned Java was an easier language to learn than AS3 or that it was less complex.
This also being an excellent reason to start with Java. Stick to command line stuff early on without all the noise of building a GUI, making database calls, etc.
My bad, I thought you said the opposite...;)

yell0wdart

06-04-2008, 03:34 AM

@ASWC: No worries, sir. ;)

@FEK315: That, my good man, is entirely up to you. A lot of the general programming structures are very similar between Java and AS3 (for/while loops, if/else, switch, etc are all very similarly done). You may find defining methods and variables a little different, but the differences are mostly on the surface:

Defining a variable in Java:
string myString = "hello world";
// [data type] [variable name] = [value];

vs ActionScript 3.0:
var myString:string = "hello world";
// [keyword var] [variable name]:[data type] = [value];

Very close... the main difference is that you use the keyword "var"
to define your variable in AS3.

Method definition in Java:
public string myMessage()
{
return "hello world";
}
// [access modifier] [return type] [method name]()
// {
// [keyword return] [value];
// }

vs ActionScript 3.0:
public function myMessage():string
{
return "hello world";
}
// [access modifier] [keyword function] [method name]():[return type]
// {
// [keyword return] [value];
// }

Again, very similar. The main differences being the uses of keywords like "var" and "function" and defining datatypes following a ":" after the name of the construct.

A lot of the differences in syntax will be more surface things like that... and these two will probably be more glaring than some of the others. I'd honestly say you're probably safe to read either book, though if you read the Java book first, don't worry too much about getting yourself off track with learning AS3. ;)

FEK315

06-04-2008, 08:21 PM

I have been using AS to understand these Programing concepts. So it seems I might be able to learn both AS and JAVA at once.
The BPfD book gives examples of the concepts in LibertyBasic, RealBasic, C++ and Revolution, I think that is what has helped me the most.
I am working on loops right now, I am writing them in AS from memory after reading. :cool:

Thank you again YellowDart!

FEK315

FEK315

06-05-2008, 12:05 AM

I just ordered head first design patterns.
This is getting fun.

FEK315

FEK315

06-07-2008, 12:08 AM

Once again a I would like to thank everyone that posted in this thread.
You really gave me the kick I needed to jump over the edge.
Honestly I would have quit if it was not for you all.
I may not be posting for a while here because I am studying Java,
and I won't be working so much in AS.
Rest assured when I finally understand JAVA, I will be back to understand AS and to help as many people who need encouragement.
Thank you again YellOwdart.
I will be back soon.:):cool:

FEK315...OUT!

yell0wdart

06-07-2008, 08:45 AM

Any time, sir. Glad to help. ;)

evride

06-08-2008, 04:03 AM

this thread never seems to end.

FEK315

06-23-2008, 08:34 PM

Hi all, I am on my second reading of Programming for Dummies and I am gearing up for learning Java then I will be back at AS3.
Does anyone know any good Java developer websites. You all are a great group of people and I am looking for a good community of programmers that I can learn from. :D

Fek315

ASWC

06-23-2008, 09:42 PM

try javaranch.com

Xoote

07-09-2008, 06:54 PM

Thanks for all the info

r-m

03-01-2010, 03:13 AM

Hey there!
Try Professor Mehran Sahami lecture's
Course Name:
Programming Methodology (Stanford)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMDCCdjyW8
This guy is an amazing teacher!