Silverlight or Flex?

[ahmed[A]]

I wanted some opinion from people that which one do you think is better?both are used to develop RIA and that's what I know so I also need some info about it .

[evride]

Flex/Flash. Cause it's awesome. 'nuff said. Want the otherside of the story? Ask both the people who have the Silverlight browser plugin installed if they have ever seen Silverlight content on a site not owned by Microsoft and why they think that is.

[CyanBlue]

I'd check on the user base first before you decide what technology you'd want to use... See what your user base is, and what kinds of software they have installed or if they are willing to install new software for whatever reason it is... and then make your choice... ;)

My 2 cents says Flash/Flex... Don't forget to ask the same question in the Silverlight forum as well...

[evride]

actually I'll say one more thing.
Flash is great because of the community. I dig it, and that's why I'm a Flasher.

[yell0wdart]

Flex/Flash. Cause it's awesome. 'nuff said. Want the otherside of the story? Ask both the people who have the Silverlight browser plugin installed if they have ever seen Silverlight content on a site not owned by Microsoft and why they think that is.

LOL! Summer Olympics 2008, CNN, NBC, Netflix and Obama's campaign site to name a few sites not owned by MS yet make heavy use of Silverlight. You'd probably be surprised by the install base of Silverlight. IE 8 and Windows 7 will most likely have it by default.

/edit

Netflix actually took their online video player off Flash and Flash Media Server and went with a Silverlight player instead.

[evride]

This is a Flash Fanboy only site. I don't like what you say lol.

But anyways, the whole NBC/Summer Olympics usage of Silverlight was just to get a larger install base of Silverlight for Microsoft. I'm sure NBC would have gone with Flash if Microsoft hadn't bribed NBC with buttloads of cash. NBC also had a pre-existing deal with Microsoft. That's what the whole MSNBC is about. So the Olympics/NBC doesn't count. Microsoft goes about getting more users in 2 different ways. They either make it easier to use their product like installing IE with Windows, or it spends a crapload of money to MAKE you use their product, as with the Olympics coverage on NBC.com.

[yell0wdart]

Affiliation or not, it's still not owned by MS. I'd argue that it counts absolutely. You're simply grasping at straws to prove your point (or lack thereof) because your reasoning is flawed. Sure, NBC and MS's professional affiliation tips the scales a little bit in MS's favor, but you shouldn't ignore the fact that Silverlight offers advantages that Flash does not, simply because you're a Flash fanboy posting on a Flash fanboy website.

You also discount the fact that MS's development division is VERY innovative. They don't solely get their user-base by offering something that's easier to use. Not saying they don't do business that way, but MS's development division does some amazing things that just don't exist on other platforms yet (LINQ anybody?). They are MUCH further ahead of the curve than most people give them credit for.

[Flash Gordon]

M$ is evil. Adobe is great (minus acrobat). Blowfish (or blowme, smellyfish or whatever it is) sucks. Flash rules all things.

[wvxvw]

They [MS] are MUCH further ahead of the curve than most people give them credit for.

But this isn't the case with Silverlite at the moment. It has a potential to became such thing though, but at where it stands right now - that's quite far behind Flash.
Right now the situation is like this:
Flash bits Silverlite on:
- adoption rate.
- ready-made solutions (aka plenty of 3rd party libraries).
- Flash authoring tools may be run on most OSes, while I'm not sure if you can use Mono to build Silverlite apps... and, anyway, Mono isn't that very popular...
- All sorts of learning resources.

Though SilverLite uses more advanced language, and, potentially, may have a better hardware integration.

So, IMO, unless you're very good in C#, and you don't like AS for whatever reason, and you want to experiment - SL is for you, but, practically, it's not yet ready for "everyday" use.

[kkbbcute]

Its a weird place to ask this question because there are bound to be more Flex developers here than Silverlight developers, it's like going to a Mac conference and asking whether Windows or Mac is superior. Either way, Flex wins simply because it has a great community and has widespread support/use.

[ASWC]

SilverLight will succeed who can really contest that? Now the question is where will Flash stand when that happen? What will Adobe do to answer the threat? SilverLight 2 still misses as wvxvw pointed out a lot of what Flash offers but with the release of SilverLight 3 in the months coming the difference between the two products will become less obvious. Then next year SilverLight 4 will certainly be up for the challenge. MS puts a lot of money in that, a lot of time, a lot of energy as with the whole Expression package. It will be foolish to not be aware of that and as a Flash professional everyone should like me download SilverLight and start to learn!

[kkbbcute]

I still think that Flex will hold its ground as a successful development platform, regardless of the success of Silverlight. Like the way Flash in web development held its own against Ajax.

[yell0wdart]

SilverLight will succeed who can really contest that? Now the question is where will Flash stand when that happen? What will Adobe do to answer the threat? SilverLight 2 still misses as wvxvw pointed out a lot of what Flash offers but with the release of SilverLight 3 in the months coming the difference between the two products will become less obvious. Then next year SilverLight 4 will certainly be up for the challenge. MS puts a lot of money in that, a lot of time, a lot of energy as with the whole Expression package. It will be foolish to not be aware of that and as a Flash professional everyone should like me download SilverLight and start to learn!

This is exactly my point. Right now, while Silverlight is still in its infancy, Flash has some distinct advantages. But as Silverlight matures with the coming release of Silverlight 3 and beyond, Flash is going to become less and less attractive to developers (designers won't care as much).

Don't get me wrong, I like working with Flash, but lately, I find myself needing to use it less and less. Where I used to depend on Flash before, I'm finding myself using JS libraries like jQuery and MooTools instead. JS/AJAX is lighter weight, and I don't have to worry about any extra noise.

My point is that Silverlight shouldn't be brushed aside as some BS Microsoft marketing garbage. It's got some serious power to it, and going forward, I'll bet that it's going to give Flash a serious challenge for market share.

[JLM]

Until silverlight addresses designers properly it should have no sensible role on the web.

[CyanBlue]

My 2 cents is that Silverlight will be a part of the RIA/Multimedia mainstream whether somebody likes it or not... M$ has spent so much time and money on this product and it is not simply going away in one day... We, as developers, simply need to sharpen our knives to handle any kind of chops whether it is Flash or Silverlight... What it really matter is what comes out as a product not what language/technology we use to develop it...

[ASWC]

Until silverlight addresses designers properly it should have no sensible role on the web.
SilverLight has already a sensible role on the web.

[JLM]

Using XML for creative development is tricky that is why flex is yet to replace flash, I don't know flex so this is mainly guessed from using XAML, which currently is a development not creative designers medium. Much of the creative web is on Mac's and creating silverlight on a mac is tricky. As far as I know it is only possible to use the javascript variant with some firefox plugin and inkscape XAML hand modified to work. I have used Blend and must say that it is useless for both designers and developers, it is so far from tools like flash IDE its a joke and developers regularly find it can't render anything vaguely complex. So the reality is that a designer have to handcode XML, hardly a fluid design flow. The reality of separation between code and layout is arbitary as binding you can code a hell of a lot but often not in a generic way.

Microsoft should look at creating a really good plugin for inkscape, and create bundles for textmate, that would help secure silverlight place outside of the visual studio software houses, iron ruby is just not quite enough as they still neglect designers and thus how can the creative industry take silverlight seriously.

As a flash creative I have no problem experimenting or using Silverlight but I have discussed this with the recruitment agency and there is just no call for Silverlight except for the odd company that Microsoft have spent time and effort trying to influence. If I want to experiment with non mainstream I prefer looking at haxe. The agency told me they had been given free training in the states, but reality is that its not yet mainstream and they certainly were not advising clients to take it seriously and honestly told me I would be much better off offering flex. Until it caters for designers and crossover creatives in its workflow, I feel its my duty to berate it, countering all the rubbish I hear from dot net devs, that pre judge flash/flex at least I know some XAML, and fankly it smells the same as flex but without the creative power of flash, and from a creative perspective therefore sucks!

Silverlight Summary:
Dev tools - very good
Design tools - sucks
Crossplatform tools - not really
Mainstream - yer right, lets tell the truth it is like the non flash brigade, not accepting the reality.

Although if I can rem any XAML I am happy to post against a prob :)

[yell0wdart]

I think some of the overly defensive reactions are a little silly in regard to Silverlight. MS has never been very good in the design end of things. But if they want Silverlight to succeed (and they obviously do), they'll have to improve Expression to be on par with Flash's robust functionality. Flash sucked ass as a design tool in its infancy as well. Give it time, and I'm sure Expression will equal Flash as a design environment.

I agree with JLM in some of his pionts. MS has a long way to go to get Silverlight accessable to designers. Will they get there? They kind of have to... so I'm betting that it's not a question of will they get there? I think "when they get there" would be more appropriate. Expression needs to be more robust as a design tool and should be available for Mac users. I think it'll get there... especially when you see guys like Kirupa pimping it on his site (http://www.kirupa.com/), and high-ups in MS, like Scott Guthrie (http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/default.aspx) (who's a HUGE name in the .NET development community), getting out there and promoting it.

[JLM]

But the answer to the question is 'Flashplayer', probably 9!

[evride]

SilverLight will succeed who can really contest that?

I wouldn't call a winner just yet. Both companies are very big, have a lot of bright minds working, and have deep pockets. But here's to hoping that Adobe wins.

Honestly I think Adobe will win. Since it's taken over Macromedia it has expanded Flash Platform quite considerably. You now have several tools you can use to utilize the flash player (Flash, Flex Builder, Flex SDK, Flash Catalyst).

To combat the growing threat from Microsoft I think we should create a National Flash Awareness day to expand the interest in the Flash platform and the many ways we can develop for it. On this day we teach other friends how to program for Flash.

[fx.barrett]

I don't think that "the winner" is the essential part in this fight. What really matters is "how much of the market will Silverlight take over once it get's mature enough to actually stand up to Flash/Flex". If the market will be cut in half, then we're all ok, but if the market goes with SL and Flash/Flex slowly but surely go extinct, that's bad.

Obviously, you'd now say: "yeah, but we're professionals... we'll quit Flash and learn SL if that's what it takes for us to survive" and I'd totally agree... Still, I'd feel sad to see Flash/Flex totally disappear or loose to much of it's market, forcing at least 70% of the current Flash/Flex developers to change language/technology in order to make a living.

As many have already stated, Flash has some clear advantages, especially on the design part... MS has the experience advantage over Adobe, but Adobe has the community/user experience/support advantage and that will count a lot too ( we all know what MS has a bad name and most of their stuff are considereg garbadge just because it's an MS product << although that's not always the case >> ).

I really wouldn't have any problem switching to C# if I'll be forced to, but I hope that things will never come down to something like that ( except if SL will offer the same stuff Flash/Flex does now and will offer in the future and + other new cool features that the Adobe guys didn't even consider or were "too lazy" to implement ).

[ASWC]

Netflix online video player is now SilverLight.

[maskedMan]

And for those who are not at work right now, Playboy has released archives of their classic issues with the picture viewer being in Silverlight.