[Q] Song Copyright

[Colin Campbell]

I was thinking about possible songs I could use for a site, and then copyrights came into the question... I email a record company about 3 months ago with the same question, just for future reference, and they sent me an email back saying to send the email to the same address I sent to it (heh :p) Soooooo... I went looking on the forums for answers, but didn't come across any solid answers.

Question: Is it alright for me to use copyrighted songs as long as its known who's it by, who owns the copyright, and such? I was also thinking there must be a way to block these songs from going in the cache, and there was a thread about that a while back, but as far as I could tell no definitive answers came from that.

Any input? Thanks :)

EDIT: timmee's just suggested over ICQ to import the MP3 into a .swf file and then load it into the main .fla, would that work?

[splict]

Well, I'm not sure about a good method for keeping it out of the cache, but as far as is it legal?

The answer is a pretty simple no. Of course, that being said, I doubt that the record company is gonna track down some kid has on his personal site. Of course with the MPAA these days, you never know :p The more proffessional the site the less I would want to do it, and I definately wouldn't do it for a client.

The only way I could see getting around this (legally) is if it was used for a school affiliated educational project.

-splict *who is not a lawyer;)*

[CyanBlue]

Yeah... The answer is NO... I am not a lawyer as you know, but you cannot "broadcast" the copyrighted music over the Iternet unless you are authorized... It's like ripping a movie DVD that you own and stream it out to the Internet with the caption at the bottom that says this movie was directed by blah blah and so on... :D

splict... Didn't you read the thread that goes with the teen whoes name is Mike Rowe and his website being mikerowesoft.com news??? :D

[splict]

Yeah, thats true CyanBlue :) like I said, these days who knows who they would go after. Still, they would probably just make you take it down... but once again, who knows? Better to not risk it.

[Colin Campbell]

I think I'll email them again... what if I edited the audio? Would that change the copyright? Mike Rowe's case is more or less why I'm asking, plus, that damned RIAA is suing anybody they can get their hands on, even though I'm in Canada I'd probably still be at risk.

[splict]

nope. Take Puff Daddy for example, wait bad example, he doesn't edit it. :p But its like sampling - if they can recognise it then they'll know its theirs. (You'd be surprised how little it takes for these proffesionals to recognise something) And that means you are profiting (even if not financially) from them without compensation. Of course, it doesn't hurt to email them.

[CyanBlue]

I don't think you can EDIT the song at all... Can you??? Um... Obviously I don't know much about it, but If somebody buy my Flash movie in $100,000 and he adds 'this programmer sucks' or 'GW is bad' or whatever message over the movie, I don't think I'll like it very much even he paid good money... :(

[Jessica lucidiastudios]

A few examples at how hard artists and their reps are protecting themselves::

Hey, I was surprised to hear the other day from a Dentist who was told by the record company representing Celine Dion that he's not allowed to play her CD as "on hold" music on the phone. They are actually calling dentists (and I suppose other companies too) and after the reception picks up, they ask "Can you please put me on hold?" so they can hear what you're playing. If you're playing their CD, you get a warning. Ridiculous they have gone to those lengths. The dentist was floored this happened to them. And yes, this happened in Canada.

As far as editing. Any work created by an individual remains that individuals regardless of how people illegally modify it. Jennifer Lopez did "Jenny on the Block" and sampled an older song into it. That original artist of the sampled song sued her because she didn't have permission to use any part of the song.

If you get the permission of the person who owns rights, you can use their stuff under their terms. But good luck getting permission for a commercial project. It's too bad really. It's no different than the TV commercials that use famous songs...they likely paid out the wazoo to use them.

Jessica
;)

[Colin Campbell]

:( looks like i'm up the river.... I just want to use music I like... oh well, I'll find a way.

[McGiver]

Well I don't really have to say something useful, so:
Just buy yourself a record company, and you can use their songs

btw.: still less than 1k posts :D

[tg]

of course, the answer is yes if you get permission from the artist and or recording company

[adaminc]

I am having the same problem for my portfolio site, but for something like this, I also think that if it isnt being used for commercial purposes, it can be considered fair use. Its a really really grey area.

[Cota]

Ok, Everyone is correct and wrong at the same time. There is a very fine line with that stuff. I would suggest consulting with a lawyer, but from personal experiences in the music field, both as a musician and record company employee, I can tell you there are situations where you can use the music without any permissions from the record companies. The most obvious way is to "cover" the song. This is totally legal and the original artist cant do anything about it. If you think any of those bands that covered songs actually got permission, you're wrong. If you in any way profit from your site, then yes, its illegal!. If you do not profit in anyway, then its perfectly legal to have the song there. In some cases, you can profit from your site, as long as the artist name, album, and record company are clearly displayed. Those particular cases are very "grey".

All in all, if you want to use the music, either get permission, always a good idea, or have a band cover the song for you. If you really read into the copyright laws, you'll find that most of the things you thought were illegal, are actually legal, and some of the things you thought legal, are illegal. Its really really sketchy at best.

[tg]

If you in any way profit from your site, then yes, its illegal!. If you do not profit in anyway, then its perfectly legal to have the song there. In some cases, you can profit from your site, as long as the artist name, album, and record company are clearly displayed.


i've got to disagree with the bolded part there. i think it all depends on either getting permission, or paying royalties.

the perfect example is the use of arlo guthries 'this land is your land' in the political spoof/cartoon this past year. as a spoof it should have been perfectly legal to use the song, but still they almost got sued.... then come to find out the song has been in the public domain for the last 20 years or so...

hell, record companies are having fits if you sample their records wether or not you make money from your samplings.

[splict]

The reason monetary gain is irrellevant is because someone can lose money even if you didn't make money. For instance, if I were to put eminem's new album as the background music for my site people could open my site up when they want to listen to his album - instead of buying the cd. That is a specific example, but the idea effectively applies to other situations.

Covering a song is a good suggestion as an alternative to the original question for those that have access to a band. However, as far as broadcasting copyrighted songs, I still believe it to be illeagal - almost always and almost definately in this situation - unless you have express written permission.

[vilehelm]

Learn GarageBand. Make loops yerself.

As far as if you'll have to pay and how much...consider Cadillac payed $1,000,000 for the rights to use Led Zepellin's RocknRoll in a commercial.

Negotiating rights for music use can be an arduous process, here at work (we make lots of TV commercials) we have people who do that sort of thing full time.

There is stock music you can use from companies similar to Corbis and Getty for images.

Wether or not anyone would seek monetary damages against a personal site is questionable, most likely you would get a cease and decist order, you would yank the tune and that would be the end of it. However, that in and of itself is a major hassle.

If this is for a client DON'T DO IT. You make them liable, yourself liable, it just sucks, I was not involved in it but we had an incident at a company I worked at previously involving a pro sports team whose permission we did not get for an ad and, well, it wasn't pretty.

[vilehelm]

I am having the same problem for my portfolio site, but for something like this, I also think that if it isnt being used for commercial purposes, it can be considered fair use. Its a really really grey area.

Nothing Gray about it, you can't do it without permission.

[Cota]

The gray area for using a song without profit, is the word profit itself. If you read the copyright laws, nowhere does it say "money", it only reads profit. Which is where a lot of the debate is. If I put a song in my personal site, and people hire me, is that profitting from using their song? Regardless of whether or not a record company or artist is going to sue, the law generally rules against them. I could probably site hundreds of cases to prove that point...

But the main point I think WE ALL agree on is, do you really want that headache? Play it ultra safe so you can sleep at night.