PC or Mac for Flash Development?

[williamon9]

hi, i just wanna know what system (PC/Mac) you guys are using for Flash Development.

if you have experience with both system, please let me know the reason of switching?

thanks!

:)

[Billy T]

if you are buying a comp specifically to do flash on then buy a pc

the mac flash player is so ****

the mac authoring tool is slow and buggy - even the debugger is full of bugs

most people viewing your stuff will be on a pc

[mrfluffy]

PC at work, Mac at home.

I'll second Billy's comments on the authoring tool, damn annoying.

[McGiver]

PC at home, PC at work
...pc is cheaper, faster, more software runs on it.

[killGerald.com]

I've never tried Flash on the PC, but as a mac user, I've got no complaints. I haven't noticed any of the bugs Billy T mentioned, and my flash movies and code work on every OS (Mac OS 9/10; Windows XP/2000) I've tried them in. Macs are more expensive, but they're elegant and fast and my computer never crashes - and the OS and apps are aesthetically pleasing. I know that the "look" of your computer and apps might seem unimportant, but for me, it has transformed my computing experience. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

-Gerald.

[Billy T]

don't get me wrong - I love my mac

but have a look at one of your flash movies on a PC and you won't believe the difference...

[CyanBlue]

I'll go with whatever I currently have if I can use old softwares...
The software cost adds up as well... Just my 2 cents... :)

[darth]

Go with mac! If you work with flash then you notice that working with multiple documents in windows is the biggest pain. This is one of the reasons why I´m switching to macintosh. Otherwise, older/slower mac´s are not very good with flash, and also older versions of macromedia software are not very good on mac´s.

[CyanBlue]

working with multiple documents in windows is the biggest pain.
Um... What do you mean, darth??? Isn't that suppose to be a good thing???

[darth]

I mean this (http://www.hot.ee/turntable/Untitled-1.gif)

[CyanBlue]

Oh... I see... That's something I have never tried all my life... :)
Yeah... I think you can say THAT is bad...

[darth]

Oh... I see... That's something I have never tried all my life... :)

so you run different processes for different documents? doesn´t that take lot of memory?

the other thing thet is also bad - on pc flash sometimes quits(errors) and what you have been working on - all gone :mad:

[CyanBlue]

Um... No... I just don't minimize the Flash files... I use Windows menu to select the other file to work on... :)

The crash... I don't think it goes with the specific OS... Flash crashes on each platform if I remember correctly... There are certain things that makes Flash crash no matter what platform you are, and there are certain scripts that you have in your script that causes the problem...

[darth]

I didn´t mean when runnig flash player or debugging, I mean crashing like when switching scenes or something simple like that, happens to me on xp home, and professional

[McGiver]

I am working with billions of documents the same time on my PC.
depends on your Ram! no Mac can beat the huge possible ram of most PCs.

By the way, Flash 6 and 7 crashed on my PC with windows XP only once since I have this combination (~ one year)
windows ME used to crash a lot, but XP is as stable as one could wish.

[CyanBlue]

Um... Did you really use Windows ME??? I thought that is garbage collection system... :D

Yeah... I use W2K and I hardly have crash when I select the scene or whatever IDE stuff you are talking about... I use FMX on W2K/256MB Ram/AMD 700 and I don't have problem working on multiple Flash files... :)

[McGiver]

well, not to forget this one :D
http://members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html

@CB: yep, since it was preinstalled on my pc, I used it until XP came out.
Crashs(1/4 Year, ME)>=Crashs(8 Years, 3.1)+Crashs(4 Years, 98)+Crashs(1 Year, XP)

[mrfluffy]

no Mac can beat the huge possible ram of most PCs.
I thought windows could only handle 4GB, but the new G5s can have 8GB so win by quite a distance (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be happy with 512 at work, they make me run XP on 128 :( )

[CyanBlue]

Come to think of it, I don't recall any instance when DOS crashed my computer... :)

128 on WXP??? That's big ouch... :(

[annexion]

Mac can handle more ram because of the processor, not so much because of the operating system.

The new Apple's are 64 bit, thereby allowing double the ram.

[McGiver]

I only based my info on those tiny little I-books G4 I was interested in for some time (quite cheap for macs), and they have in most cases 128 or 256 mb ram

but as mrfluffy and annexion say it's the other way round, they are probably right :)

[petefs]

PC. flash player/authoring software aside, I develop sql, php, js, and vb along with flash and mac is unacceptable for those purposes. We use our macs for what they're strong at, video editing/compositing/motion graphics, design, and audio (and yes, we use PC for those purposes as well :P)

[stealthelephant]

well now it all depends on the OS u are going to use,
if u are using freebsd or linux or a nix for that matter, use a pc.
if u are using windows then forget about it, use mac


but XP is as stable as one could wish.
lmao :D

did i say that out loud? :o

i have both pc and mac, unfortunately MX 2004 is not available for any nix machine but it is for the mac, i have not noticed any serious bugs with the flash authoring envir for mac, but i have noticed that the player is slower on that platform which is a pitty


Come to think of it, I don't recall any instance when DOS crashed my computer...

actually neither can i :rolleyes:

Mac can handle more ram because of the processor, not so much because of the operating system.

The new Apple's are 64 bit, thereby allowing double the ram.

they cheated with it though, the OS is not fully 64 bit and thats apps can only access 4 gigs at a time, the chip is capable of addressing the mem though


PC. flash player/authoring software aside, I develop sql, php, js, and vb along with flash and mac is unacceptable for those purposes. We use our macs for what they're strong at, video editing/compositing/motion graphics, design, and audio (and yes, we use PC for those purposes as well :P)

mm i think nixes are better for all accept for the vb one

[McGiver]

@ steal the elephant:
I am happy with it :P

be honest, when did you stop using windows? was your last windows winME? :p (I know winME is like pain in the [you know where] )

If you want more than just apple products on your bill of fare: get a PC
(you still can get Linux there)

[petefs]

*nix <is> better for most of that...but unless I missed something there's no flash authoring software for *nix ; ) (let's not bring OSX into the mix). I see no major drawbacks to devving on a winnt box -- the dev server is linux with a samba share and there are plenty of good IDE's & editors availble for winnt : )

[sneeuwitje]

I say: Mac rules for any developer on Internet:
Try serving me any http that DOES work on Mac, and DOES NOT on Windows [or most other platforms for that matter] ... i'll buy you a night of drinks at Neeleman [fare to R'dam not included :)] ... the fact that i'm mainly talking JS here, doesn't weaken my point [imho], cause MS-JS is probably the main reason that Mac MX2004 is poor on performance and buggy, for all adaptions Apple needs to make to adapt to MS-JS ... pain ... biggest problems i have getting code to run are in the character-set-department ... but that will all be over when MS buys Apple :)

[Cota]

I think everyone has over looked the most important thing. One says PC, the other says Mac, but what about you, the developer yourself. Hendrix was Hendrix no matter what guitar he played. Amazing developer beats both a Mac and a PC.

[sneeuwitje]

... no matter what guitar he played.that must be why H always played a right-handed Fender left-handed ... *not* ... you should see me on my 'werqty' keyboard ... ;)

[stealthelephant]

mx has been ported to linux throught WINE

[McGiver]

I think everyone has over looked the most important thing. One says PC, the other says Mac, but what about you, the developer yourself. Hendrix was Hendrix no matter what guitar he played. Amazing developer beats both a Mac and a PC.
Of course, an awesome developer will also have the money to affort anything he wants. But as long as you are not the Jimmy Hendrix of designers, you will have to take care of your money and not give i away for a golden guitar that looks beautiful buthas less tones than a normal one (which is even a lot cheaper) :p

[CyanBlue]

an awesome developer will also have the money to affort anything he wants.It's not that I am one of them, but I don't think that's an absolute truth... :p
Of course, I totally agree the idea of whatever we can lay our hands on... :)

[McGiver]

It's not that I am one of them, but I don't think that's an absolute truth
ever heard of a former software developer called Bill Gates :D
(also I seriously doubt he is using macs :p )

[darth]

btw, alot of microsoft employees are using mac´s, read the technews

[Cota]

Mac -vs- PC all comes down to a matter of preference. I've seen some amazing work on a PC and on a Mac.
It's not that I am one of them
Stop being modest.

[McGiver]

It's not that I am one of them
Stop being modest.
he must have been trying to say he is not one of the developers with
the money to affort anything he wants

because CB is an awesome developer *stalk*

[petefs]

It mostly comes down to preference, and I will admit that I grew up with windows/dos -- not by choice but by environment. I am more comfortable in a windows environment because of that ^_^

Macintosh is a great platform for a variety of things. I have very little experience with flash authoring on a Mac, but I do experience many slowdowns with mac playback of flash files in general. We test our flash work on every platform and in every browser we can get our grubby hands on :b

All that aside, I agree that a great designer uses whatever he wants. PC/Mac/*nix, the output it was matters! However, from a business standpoint there are many differences. I used to work for a HD (high definition :b) post house, and Macintosh was <not> an option for us at that time. No matter what OUR preferences may have been, nobody was developing high end HD post for the Macintosh at the time. Just another .02 (what am I up to now? a few bucks? :b)

[sneeuwitje]

while this thread is tending towards the all-to-well-know subjective win/mac contreverse, let's talk about why one platform is preferable over another in certain situations.
I do press-, Website- and MM/AV-productions,
first on Windows, later complemented with Mac, now only on Mac:

i favour Mac in general because the system and the way applications use it is much more straightforward than windows, but ...
a year ago i seriously considered switching (back) to windows because:
1. Flash is terrible on Mac, slow and buggy,
2. IE is an abandoned MS product for Mac (where's v6?) ... Opera (where's v7?) not much better and Netscape is not a player as far as i'm concerned. Safari has hardly come out of alpha with v1.2 and that was a year after v1.0, shame on you Apple.
3. I love HomeSite (win-only) and SE|PY (i can't get it compiled on Mac ... something with WxPython ??).
4. success has seemed to make Apple arrogant; their customer support is not much better anymore than, any other hard- and software-vendor's.
5. Processor-power feels to be better used in Windows, than on Mac.

I did not because:
1. MM and Adobe would not let me switch Studio from Mac to win ... my treasure is only that deep,
2. I had just set up my wife's winXP laptop for normal office use plus some hardware ... you cannot imagine the trouble i went through,
3. I like to know that what i develop runs on any machine, and not just windows
4. I still do press-work from time to time, overhere that's still a Mac-world mainly.
5. I don't really need to have a very powerful computer, i need it to be versatile.

and on top of all that, those (at that time) new powerbooks where just my idea of what a computer should be, small, lightweight, connective ... and sexy ;)

[PixelSense]

flash crashes in Mac..... it happened loads of times for me....
i do prefer to work and test on my PC for coding....

both have their pros and cons...

[Billy T]

http://www.lava.com.au/wpwtest/main.html

have a click around

would be interested in hearing your stats and what you are running etc

cheers

[Billy T]

oh...and do any of you mac users see the crap (text outlines etc) on the right side that is meant to be masked out?

[sneeuwitje]

Nice tracking Billy T, but indeed i see way you have to go through this kind of testing to achieve acceptable rendering-speeds ... maybe a little to much, all that scripted 'tweening'?
Especially the navigation-folding after select is very poor, and the scrollbar drops current framerate to less than 10.

The results from Holland:

On Mac PB G4 867 / 640MB

with Safari, IE5, Opera6, Netscape7:
Av. fps = 20,11,14,16
Low: 0,2,5,2
High: 48,42,32,32

safari seemed to behave better after the first time (higher low, lower high, av about the same)

[Billy T]

cool thanks for the feedback and detailed testing

yeah the alpha fades die on the mac...think they're fine on a pc though...would be interested to hear what others have to say

hey being a mac user, could you see crap on the right hand side that was just visible? stuff that is meant to be masked out?

Thanks

[mrfluffy]

on a PowerBook G3 500, 384MB RAM, Safari 1.2.1 (and a 56K modem....)

Ave - 10, High - 50, Low - 0

Didn't see any crap on the right hand side

[Billy T]

high of 50? hmmm think there might be some problems with my calculations...frame rate is 31

thanks

[Billy T]

here's the code I'm using...any suggestions how it could be improved are welcome

_root.createEmptyMovieClip('speed_mc', 50);
speed_mc.i = 0;
low = 200;
high = 0;
speed_mc.onEnterFrame = function() {
time = getTimer();
elapsed = time-oldTime;
cur = 1000/elapsed;
test2_txt.text = 'current fps = '+Math.round(cur);
this.i++;
av = this.i/(getTimer()/1000);
test_txt.text = 'Av. fps = '+Math.round(av);
if (this.i>100) {
if (cur<low) {
low = cur;
test3_txt.text = 'Low: '+Math.round(low);
}
if (cur>high) {
high = cur;
test4_txt.text = 'High: '+Math.round(high);
}
}
oldTime = time;
};

[sneeuwitje]

no crap, BillyT.

I do have suggestions: your oldTime and time declarations are too far apart.
I think you should have oldTime = time; on the 3rd line of your onEnterFrame and it'll be more accurate.
And why not use time instead of getTimer in
Â*Â*Â*Â*av = this.i/(getTimer()/1000); ...?

[sneeuwitje]

Billy T: took a closer look at and thought this is a more strict and reliable way to handle this:
- declaring all variables up-front,
- eliminating slowdown at OnEnterFrame-init,
- having a more balanced load within the on EnterFrame,
- and making it AS2.0

Only i don't get the 1st undefined in trees...?
Is more stable (on Mac anyway) now.
Like to hear what you think, only maybe you should put it in another thread?

PS. was quite troublesome copy/pasting your code;
somehow the tabs and spaces were illegal characters for the Mac MX2004 code-formatter ... another reason to NOT develop Flash on Mac ...? ;) or a bug in the forum's code-formatter ...?

[McGiver]

P3: 1Ghz
IE 6.0
768MB Ram
Win XP

Av FPS 24
low:5
high 32

(Av FPS depends on what you, the user are doing on that site: especially alpha blending effects always slow down a lot)

[Billy T]

cool I'll try your suggestions...except for the AS2 one...still waiting for moocks book ;-)

thanks chaps