how much to charge?

[gujuboy]

hi guys, i need advise on how much to charge for a site. okay i been making websites for about 7 years but so far i only earned 100 bucks from a friends dj group site[lol i know, i did a favour to him but dude only paid 100 out of 250]. i recently got two orders which involves money transaction, for that i am planning to use paypal buttt. the problem is that i dont know how much to charge the person. these sites will be about selling photos/art. any ideas on how much i should charge? thx everyone. plz guide me to the light.... oh wait not the white light..... the greeen light $$$$$$$$$$$$.


bye

[c2kman]

I recently did a website for a company (very basic html website) and charged $300 for it, this was actually the first website I had gotten paid to do. I would say no less then $1000 but no more then $2000 maybe.

[Cota]

You have to think, how many hours will it take you to develop the site. How much are you going to charge per hour. Simple math, Hours * Rate.

[gujuboy]

thank you c2kman and Cota for taking time to read and reply. i'll do exactly what you guys have said. Cota how much do you charge per hour? thx for the support.

take care,
gujuboy

[c2kman]

If you are going to do it by hour just think about how long its going to take you. If you think it will take a week then charge enough per hour just to make sure you actually get a good deal. The programmers where I work make easily $30 an hour, so you could easily get away with doing $15-20 or even $25. If it takes you 40 hours (1 week of working 8 hours a day) that would be $800 if you charge 20 an hour. You basically just need to sit down for a day and think about what the website is worth to you. If this is one of your first 5 websites that you have done for someone else. You might not want to charge a lot $15-20 an hour is fine, if this is one of you 5-10 websites you have done for someone then you can charge a little bit higher $25-30 an hour, and if you have done more then 10 sites for other people I would say that $35-45 an hour would be ok just because you have the experiance of those first 10 sites. Also you could find some web programming/web design studios in your area and call then and pretend like you are a small company that needs a website and ask them what they charge.

[HypnoticVisions]

It also depends on the quality of your work and what technologies you're using. If it takes you 40 hours to complete a basic HTML site then you can't really charge as much as if it took you 40 hours to produce a full flash website. It sounds like you're relatively unexperienced so I would shoot for less than 500.

[dr.swank]

just as a point of reference. I charge EUR 60 per hour. I have had the experience that a client is willing to pay good money for good work. You may want to consider breaking the proposal down into different segments so the client can see where the money is going. Its a tough balance, but don't under or over sell yourself. the bottom line is, charge what you feel comfortable with. its the 'gut feeling' thing.
cheers, doc

[farafiro]

I think someone posted a question like this b4
search in the General Chat forums

Also, I will move it to there as I think it tends to be so

[SavageGurl]

15 an hour :(...? They have to pay for the development as well as the 7 years of experience.

I get paid at work 31/hour. And I charge no less than 1000 for a flash developed site. From there, any ecommerce or additional thinking on my part is extra...

If they want me to work hourly, it is 42 an hour and I'll give them projected (aka a minimum of) hours.

BTW, Im in LA and I have close to 6 years experience

[Timmee_3Styler]

SavageGurl...pretty wealthy over there as I can tell ;)

[tg]

@ timmee, that would depend on wether the LA she is living in is Los Angeles, or Louisiana.... dollar doesn't go as far in LA California.

[tg]

oh, the us government would consider this whole thread price fixing.... and all of us US citizens reading it can now be charged with a crime. heh.

[CyanBlue]

Yeah... I think it is too harsh to get paid as what she said if she has 6 years of experience... and she lives in LA... I hope she does not live in LA, CA... It's gotta be really harsh if that's the case...

Price fixing... Um... I have to agree with that... If the MOD thinks that this thread should be closed, please do so... Or at least edit out all the $$$ information... :)

[smoothhabitat]

I charge $45 an hour, plus expenses.

You can figure out a good rate this way:

1. how much money do you need to live.
2. add overhead (your computer, software, internet connection)
3. add unbillable time (like writing up you invoice in quicken or emailing or meetings)
4. add advertising expenses (or time spent making your own site)
5. etc....

otherwise you're losing money (if you're trying to run a business).

[smoothhabitat]

PLUS remember income tax and social security! AND quarterly estimated-tax payments (due today, if you owe anything).

[CyanBlue]

That pretty much is correct, I think... :)

The only problem is that there are lots of people who are willing to do the same thing in 1/3 of what you are suggesting...
Of course, you pretty much get what you paid for... (Unless you are really lucky... :D)
(I meant the customer when I said you...)

[smoothhabitat]

Right. I think most good business people know that they will get better quality for more money. Some times they don't, and that's annoying. The idea is to sell them that they will get more return on their investment by going with someone that charges more. By charging a higher-rate, you will look more professional and be more likely to win more professional clients.

Hmmmmm.... all this business talk makes me feel like an evil capitalist. :( I guess when you live in a capitalist society and are self-employed, you don't have a choice. So, on a more ethics-filled note. Charge what you're work is worth and only take on jobs that you believe in.

[CyanBlue]

Charge what you're work is worth and only take on jobs that you believe in.
I like that... :)

If I can add one more note on that...

Get the job that you can take care of... Know when you have to say NO... :)

[SavageGurl]

heehee I like the pre-ethics statement: Hmmmmm.... all this business talk makes me feel like an evil capitalist. I guess when you live in a capitalist society and are self-employed, you don't have a choice.

But yes, I do live in sunny Los Angeles...6 years in, and making a mere $6/hour increase over what I made starting in 1998...ahhh the good ol' pre dotCom overpaid days :(

If I lived in "the loo" I'd be filthy rich (heh heh heh) but I cant even afford a condo out here.

[farafiro]

hmmmmmmmmm
60-20-45 $/hour
I think I must change my career now
and do some flash stuff

[smoothhabitat]

$45 doesn't all go straight to me, mind you. If I worked out how much I'm actually MAKING per hour, it's pretty poor.


Oh. Also, non-profits get charged a $35 or less, depending on their ability (or grant money).

[dr.swank]

yes. it is important to note that there are sugnificant costs that need to be covered like online costs, electricity, software licences, hardware upgrades, outsourced work, office supplies, telephone charges, travel expenses and so on. 60 eur sounds like a lot, but it is not. I know people who start working for no less than $100 per hour. They live in NYC though.

doc

[farafiro]

They live in NYC though.
docheheheeeee
is this relates to: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=48952

yup, but someone told me that starting from 60, u can hire the best Flash Dev. (the highest rates)
I donno coz I'm outta this field, not my profision

[CyanBlue]

I hate to say this, but this thread goes more toward the direction of the price fixing... I don't think it makes much sense to somebody in Africa hear how much a guy in Londone makes... Please stop shooting the numbers... :)

As I was saying, how much he makes and she makes does not make much difference... Charge however you want to charge and get the job done right... That's more important and that's how it should be if you were to accept the job... Don't get enticed by the amount of the money you can earn... Get yourself excited by the work and learning that you get from the project... :p

farafiro... You DO need to change your profession... ;)

[farafiro]

I don't think it makes much sense to somebody in Africa hear how much a guy in Londone makes... Please stop shooting the numbers... :)
who told that this 'sombody' wanna spend all his life in Africa??
farafiro... You DO need to change your profession... ;)do u have a job for me??

[tg]

Oh. Also, non-profits get charged a $35 or less, depending on their ability (or grant money).
depending on the nonprofit status, you might want to think about donating the work done, get a receipt for your work at your regular rate, then use it as a tax right off.

[smoothhabitat]

right. pro-bono is always good for those in need. it's only usable as a tax right off if you have more than your [insert some tax term that i forgot here] amount, which was like $2,000 i think or something.... can't remember. cuz you have to do it categorically and sometimes that doesn't come out as much.

[smoothhabitat]

ps. Oregon reprazent.

[tg]

right.... sounds like you've traveled down this road. and that shoulda been tax write-off. hehheh.

[annexion]

CyanBlue, if you really are that afraid the government is going to come after us for price fixing, we'll tell them that you were opposed to this thread. No need to blow-whistles about something so insignificant. If you can show me an example where a forum was shut down because the government considered a thread about rates price fixing, I'll eat my foot, until then, let it go.

There is a vast difference between charging a rate based on experience and charging a rate based on your living expenses. It is not a client's responsibility to cover your losses on the cost of living. For instance, they shouldn't be paying your debts. There is also a difference between charging a rate for free-lance work and full-time employment. Someone making $100 an hour free-lance is probably going to make less than someone at $40 an hour fully employed.

[dr.swank]

hear hear !

As for the 'not paying someone elses debt' statement, it is noones business what the money earned is used for. NOONES! You charge what you are worth and what you can get. If you suck, you won't get work no matter how cheap you are. That is reality. People want quality work, and the more important the job, the more money is moved about.

If you are in demand because you are good, then you can charge more because of the law of supply and demand.

cheers, doc

[CyanBlue]

Um... annexion... I am just trying to prevent something bad happening to AS.org as a member of this community, nothing more, nothing less... and no, I have not seen or heard of any place which has been busted by the government, but that does not mean that it is okay to do so... That's all, my friend... :)

[Cota]

Not to add fuel to the fire or anything, but annexion, many yahoo boards have been suspended and shut down by the Justice Department for starting stock rumors and driving the prices of bad stocks up and things of that sort. These days, I'd go with the better safe than sorry, attitude. This country is getting pretty damn pathetic with petty things like this.

[annexion]

You're right, and I think the political correctness movement of this generation is what perpetuates it. Cower in fear, for I will brand you a price fixer for talking about money.

Swank, that's exactly what I was getting at. Your rate should be based only on your abilities, and what the market will bear for them. If I contract you for work, and you spring a $5,000 bill on me because your car got repossessed, well... Pooh on you. I know that many people work that way, and it's criminal in my eyes.

[tg]

Someone making $100 an hour free-lance is probably going to make less than someone at $40 an hour fully employed. and that may be conservative.


but the whole price fixing thing is my fault, since i brought it up. my view is based on the article posted by rupert in this thread (which i thought was very interesting):http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=42723&highlight=price

i don't think it has so much to do with being politically correct as it does with big government, and how lawyers run things around the US.

[Cota]

WoW, I just read that article....We're all going to jail. Oh well, damn lawayers and politicians..... the rest I'll just mumble to myself.

[smoothhabitat]

big government

i think "powerful, centralized, barely-democratic" government is a better word.

[tg]

i think "powerful, centralized, barely-democratic" government is a better word.

umm... thats 3-4 words.

[smoothhabitat]

umm... thats 3-4 words.

good point. i just think there are 2 different types of big government: wide and strong. and we got strong. US republicans are against wide government, US greens are against strong government.

[cool.Marty]

You are legally entitled to know what others charge for things, whether you are a private individual or a business entity.

It's only price fixing when you conspire to charge the same.

For example, petrol stations, supermarkets and etc all monitor the prices of their competitors, in order to remain competitive. This is perfectly legal. Whatever business you run, you are legally allowed to display your prices/charges in any way you like. Including on a public internet message board.

There is a difference betwen forming price fixing cartels, and knowing what people charge in order to provide the customers with a competitive choice.

Anyway, rather than asking WHAT people charge, you should be asking HOW they arrive to their fee. i.e. the fixed costs that have to be taken into account, and etc. As has been posted already.

Edited to add: Also, the 'experience' in years isn't worth that much. It's the end result that speaks for itself. People have different learning curves, and someone might take twice as long to reach an ability of someone else. But does it then mean that they should be paid more for all the learning they did? I think not.

[smoothhabitat]

right on.

also, the price that you able to charge varies from area to area and market to market.

[Cota]

Yes, but the US laws dont read that way, and those yahoo's at the Justice Department are too stupid to look at anything with a rational mind, therefore, those entire thread "could" be seen as attempted price fixing.

but you know what, F'em.

[smoothhabitat]

US laws do say that you can't enforce the law for some people and not others. in order for them to prosecute the poor people on this forum, they would have to prosecute the gas companies, etc.

[dr.swank]

can we stop this useless discussion about big brother getting us? Big brother will do whatever protects his interests. Thats why politicians talk in riddles and lies. There is no one here who is dangerous (yet?) or they would not be here anymore. besides, the servers are in australia, so we are kind of safe.

g'night.. doc

[SavageGurl]

not to mention that it would EXTREMELY difficult from the point of view of law to prosecute any of us. My mom couldve logged on under my name...whose to say it WAS in fact me? hmmm? lol

[Cota]

Good enough for me, issue dropped.