Farafiro - Is this true?

[Warrior]

Can you please confirm if this is true? If it is, can you please hook me up with a link to a news section of it.

A Muslim man in Egypt killed his wife and buried her with their infant baby and 8-year old daughter. The girls were buried alive! He reported to the police that an uncle killed the kids. 15 days later, another family member died. When they went to bury him, they found the 2 girls under the sand - alive! The girl was asked how she had survived. "A man wearing shiny white clothes, with bleeding wounds in his hands, came every day to feed us. He woke up my mom so she could nurse my sister." She was interviewed on Egyptian national TV, by a veiled Muslim woman news anchor. She said on public TV, "This was none other but Jesus, because nobody else does things like this!" Muslims believe Isa would do this, but the wounds mean He really was crucified, and it's clear also that He is alive! The country is outraged over the incident, and the man will be executed. But it's also clear that the a child could not make up a story like this, and there is no way these children could have survived without a true miracle. Muslim leaders are going to have a hard time to figure out what to do with this, and the popularity of the Passion movie doesn't help! With Egypt at the center of the media and education in the Middle East, you can be sure this story will spread.

[senocular]

(slightly OT) and in other news:

A Little Rock woman was killed yesterday after leaping through her moving car's sun roof during an incident best described as "a mistaken rapture" by dozens of eye witnesses. Thirteen other people were injured after a twenty-car pile up resulted from people trying to avoid hitting the woman who was apparently convinced that the rapture was occurring when she saw twelve people floating up into the air, and then passed a man on the side of the road who she claimed was Jesus. "She started screaming "He's back, He's back" and climbed right out of the sunroof and jumped off the roof of the car," said Everet Williams, husband of 28-year-old Georgann Williams who was pronounced dead at the scene. "I was slowing down but she wouldn't wait till I stopped," Williams said. She thought the rapture was happening and was convinced that Jesus was gonna lift her up into the sky," he went on to say. "This is the strangest thing I've seen since I've been on the force," said Paul Madison, first officer on the scene. Madison questioned the man who looked like Jesus and discovered that he was dressed up as Jesus and was on his way to a toga costume party when the tarp covering the bed of his pickup truck came loose and released twelve blow up sex dolls filled with helium which floated up into the air. Ernie Jenkins, 32, of Fort Smith, who's been told by several of his friends that he looks like Jesus, pulled over and lifted his arms into the air in frustration, and said "Come back here," just as the Williams' car passed him, and Mrs.Williams was sure that it was Jesus lifting people up into the sky as they passed by him, according to her husband, who says his wife loved Jesus more than anything else.

[Warrior]

That's very nice - or not - don't know - but these girls were buried alive and this happend recently in Egypt and I want to know if it's true or not. The whole country was watching live TV when the little girl was asked "how did she survive"?

[snapple]

A man wearing shiny white clothes, with bleeding wounds in his hands, came every day to feed us

...so did he burry them again after feeding them? Why didn't he just dig them out and leave them clear of the sand? Seems a little odd that someone should take the trouble of digging people up, feeding them and then covering them in sand.

Regards, snapple

[annexion]

Or it's just another sensationalist news story having the term "creative liberties" taken to an extreme...

If you have to find out from television or the internet that "The Christ" has returned, you've probably not been invited to join him.;)

[McGiver]

hehee christians :D

btw.: if they were burried alife they probably got problems with the air-conditioning. even if Jesus came once every 30 minutes to dig them out and burry them again.

[Warrior]

Just waiting to see what faffy has to say

[freddycodes]

What does this have to do with actionscript?

[annexion]

What's Actionscript matter when judgement day is upon us?

[Warrior]

What does this have to do with actionscript?
ActionScript.org -- FORUMS > Community Boards > General Chat

[freddycodes]

Not fanatical religious boards.

[Warrior]

The word "General" means about anything. I asked a question. Why do you want to turn this into a flame war?

[tg]

first these are general boards... so my view is that anything goes.

it doesn't have to deal with actionscript.... im mean what does the my favorite song thread have to do with actionscript?

put that aside.... senoculars post i had to laugh about, just plain funny.

otherwise... this type of story (subject of post) sounds kind of like an internet rumor to me. but hell, what do i know?

[tg]

@warrior, don't know about where you live, but here in the states, its really easy to miss a news story, so you might want to post some sources for your story, so if faffy did miss it, and he wants to look into it for you, he has somewhere to start looking.

[freddycodes]

The word "General" means about anything. I asked a question. Why do you want to turn this into a flame war?

Because I think you are a fanatical extremist. You push your beliefs on everyone you cross.

So as tg said this is a general chat forum. But when people post threads about ridiculous impossible things, watch me call your [edited]

[snapple]

I have to agree. I'm a person of science, but you don't hear me banging on about decompression sickness and gas emboli in the human body!!!

[Warrior]

Because I think you are a fanatical extremist. You push your beliefs on everyone you cross.

So as tg said this is a general chat forum. But when people post threads about ridiculous impossible things, watch me call your [edited]
Well I did warn you [edited] and you quoted me warning you and you still flamed me you [edited] :mad: :mad:

[edited] :mad: :mad: You didn't like the thread get the [edited] out [edited] :mad:

Yeah, I am using this kind of language because [edited] like you can only understand :mad:

Extremist
you getting me confused with a suicide bomber - or you're [edited] mum that got it hardcore style :eek: :mad: - you [edited].

You want more through PM, GO AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!

@Snapple:
Just go drink some Snapple, Don't start no beef with me please.





































































































































































And now........... a few words from arnold
[edited]

[snapple]

Warrior - i was having a joke at my own expense (i really should change my footer)

Regards, snapple :)

[senocular]

Warrior, you need to cool down there some buddy.

[Warrior]

@Snapple:
This is the problem with forums, you can never know if someone is joking or not because you can't see their face or hear their voice.


I have to agree. I'm a person of science, but you don't hear me banging on about decompression sickness and gas emboli in the human body!!!
Maybe you should, we need to know these things ;)

@senocular
did you miss this part on purpose?

Well I did warn you and you quoted me warning you and you still flamed me Now I did warn him, so why did he still do it and you're telling me to calm down instead of asking why did he do it??

[McGiver]

lol this degenerates to a fulltimejob for sen :D

and still no word from farafiro

[annexion]

I suggest we all go surfing... :p

[tg]

warriors always in the best flame threads.... hehheh. this should be entertaining... if its not shut down too soon.

[freddycodes]

Warrior you can warn me all you like. If it makes you feel better,

I "freddycodes" have officially been warned.

Let's leave moms out of this. My mother is the most caring and selfless person you could ever hope to meet. Too bad I didn't wind up more like her. But nonetheless we should stick to the topic at hand. Not mothers. Know what I mean pal. I am sure God really likes it when you talk about people like that.

[Warrior]

I am sure God really likes it when you talk about people like that. Let's leave God out of this and stick to the thread trying to know if the story is true or not. Right :mad:

This always happens to me here for some reason. I post something, someone doesn't like it, they flame me, I flame them back, people make me out to be the bad guy :confused:

did I not ask you freddycodes "why do you want to turn this into a flame thread"? and you still did

Just answer, WHY?? I asked a question, I DID NOT PUSH MY BELIEVE ON ANY ONE AS YOU SAY. You feel that way, that's your problem.

[freddycodes]

This always happens to me here for some reason. I post something, someone doesn't like it, they flame me, I flame them back, people make me out to be the bad guy


Hey I think you are going to have to hold your self responsible for this.

Let's take your signature for instance.

First "God is always right"
If thats not pushing your beliefs on anyone who reads a post of yours whether it be about fictious stories, or actionscript, I am not sure what is.


PM me without permission and it's your first WARNING


Idle threats against things you cannot control. If I want to PM you, there is nothing stopping me, I can just do it. I don't need your permission. So what does this mean? Are you going to bury someone alive for PM'ing you. I guess I don't get it, and thats what draws me into silly debates with you.

The thing is, you can't get all crazy and start typing like a crazy adolescent who needs ridalin. You contradict yourself everytime you post.

I hate to bring God into this, whoever God is for each individual here. But it justifies my stance. You believe in God as a christian, no? Well we should be held to what we believe in, and if that is the case. You don't reflect your beliefs in the way you carry yourself.

So that's why I "flamed" you. whatever that means. I call it keeping you in check.



So let's get back on Topic shall we, are I may be forced to meet you at the bike rack after school Pal. :p

I did a search for your story. The only thing I found was a bunch of posts in forums like these.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=A+Muslim+man+in+Egypt+killed+his+wife+and+buried +her+with+their+infant+baby+and+8-year+old+daughter.

If this were a true story, don't you think all the christian extremists in this country would be using it as part of their sunday morning sermons and whatnot?

Why isn't this story plastered all over the evenings news? Why is it I have never heard of it until reading this post yesterday? Is it possible that its not true.

Warrior and all other wondering people, search around and see what you come up with.
Start here
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-91432

Warrior, I would feel a whole lot better if you could post your source on this story.

[McGiver]

I can understand the
PM me without permission and it's your first WARNING
thing.
I don't think he is against people pming him in general, more against those:
"Please help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've got an HUGE PROBLEM and am too stupid to use the appropriate Forum"
- PMs we all get from time to time.

[freddycodes]

Maybe its just the syntax that gets me.

In another forum I frequent, after getting an annoying amount of PM requests for help, I changed my signature to this.

Please don't PM me with PHP questions.
Use the forums, that is what they are here for.
vs.
PM me without permission and it's your first WARNING

You see the difference between the two?

[Warrior]

McGiver just answered your question for me.

Hey I think you are going to have to hold your self responsible for this. Why is that? Because someone attacks me and I attck them back? It's called flaming.

First "God is always right"
If thats not pushing your beliefs on anyone who reads a post of yours whether it be about fictious stories, or actionscript, I am not sure what is. So My World and My Blog isn't pushing your website in peoples face. What you see, isn't always what others see. Everyone has their own signature and they can do what they like. I took away that BIG picture I had before because it was consuming peoples bandwidth and that's just not fair.

There is too much to quote you on and I really can't be bothered as I came in here looking for an answer and got involved in a flame war.

Warrior, I would feel a whole lot better if you could post your source on this story. Isn't that the point to this thread? Me trying to find out if it's true or not? now who's being adolescent and naive?

[freddycodes]

"Website in people's faces"? Now you are making no sense. Is there somewhere on either of those two sites where I state my belief as fact?

Not sure what you mean by that. Hey you can put whatever you want in your signature. My belief is that what you have in there will entice people like me to call your bluff, "flame" if you will.

I am all for finding out if this did happen. Thats why I did some research, and as I said found no official proof. So again, where did you get your info? Simple question, you can't have made it up in your head right? So post the source of said story.

[Warrior]

E-mail. Ever herd of it?

[tg]

I would feel a whole lot better if you could post your source on this story.

warrior, i think he means.... since you posted the story you must of heard about it from somewhere. right? so whats your source of the story? where did you hear about it from? maybe it will give folks a place to start looking in order to answer your original question.....

i asked the same question earlier, but nobody responded to it.

[pom]

Haha! Excellent thread :P

[pom]

To get back to the subject, I find that part very questionnable:But it's also clear that the a child could not make up a story like thisI don't see how it's clear :confused: I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind when I read that is precisely "they made it up".

[Warrior]

E-mail, e-mail, I got it through an e-mail, e-mail e-mail

E-didly-mail

[freddycodes]

Whats "didly" mail?

[Warrior]

e-mail, but with a nice swear word in the middle.

[freddycodes]

Swear at me and it's your first WARNING

[Warrior]

that's the best you can come up with you dull wited termagant.

[McGiver]

Swear at me and it's your first WARNINGlol

@warrior: you need to improve your fighting style. freddys comments are more entertaining for me.

and @both
please don't get the opinion the PM feature was the better way to fight out this conflict,
stay here, because I don't want to miss anything

...and I'm sure Sen will loves the opportunity to edit words when the next round of insults begins. :D

[Warrior]

yes yes he must of said a funny because my signature is in stitches.

[McGiver]

not really better - but thanks for trying :D

[senocular]

shweew. Its hard to keep up with you guys.

All I really care about is keeping the hostility at a minimum... well, not min... more like within my tolerances and its usually fine as long as the language is kept within reason. Flame all you want (IMO), other people can put a stop to that if they feel the need, but I respect everyone's opinions and, like hineys, we all have them. I just hope you all try to save a little respect for others when dishing them out even when they are from a different school of thinking. We're not here to kill each other, just find out who kidnapped faffy.

[McGiver]

hmm, has he ever been away from the forums for that long before?
I'm afrait he isn't prepared for the world out there.

...maybe he is just digging in the sand to find the truth.

[freddycodes]

The fact of the matter is, it is just too easy to get you all riled Warrior.

I think myself and some others are still waiting for your didly email source.

[tg]

E-mail, e-mail, I got it through an e-mail, e-mail e-mail

E-didly-mail

well, don't get so excited. if you look at your post (the quoted one here), and my post asking for your source, you will see we posted at the same time. i wouldn't have re-asked otherwise.

[Warrior]

I wasn't answering you but freddycodes because he never herd of e-mail.

[freddycodes]

herd of email? No I have never herd of email.

[annexion]

He's probably never herded e-mail either. E-mails aren't very sociable creatures.

Oh yeah, Charles Darwin was always right. And count that as your first warning, buckaroo.

[Warrior]

He's probably never herded e-mail either. E-mails aren't very sociable creatures.

Oh yeah, Charles Darwin was always right. And count that as your first warning, buckaroo.
Now I remember very carefully telling you - and Jesse - that if you get in my way or attack me directly or indirectly, there's gonna be trouble. Obviously you just don't understand any of that and I don't know where I am going with this so I am just going to call you stupid.

[freddycodes]

You come across as very threatening, but I bet you are just a cute little thing in person Warrior.;)

[annexion]

1. I was clearly joking.

2. Don't threaten me on this public forum, or in private messages.

ready to have some fun........ I know I am ;)


get ready for a surprise :mad: :confused: :eek: ;)

[Warrior]

1. I was clearly joking.

2. Don't threaten me on this public forum, or in private messages.

1. Yes of course you were. And I am Michael Jackson.

2. Well, pictures speak louder then words.












Which come to think of it, it's in the picture.
[edited]

[annexion]

Haha :D

[freddycodes]

You are right finally Warrior. Noone gives a [edited]. So why do you get so worked up to the point of threatening people and making fun of their moms.

What happened to post where you disgraced my mother Warrior? Did you delete it? I heard that is a sure ticket into heaven.

[tg]

and why bring jesse into this? he hasn't even posted yet.

[Warrior]

Forget Jesse, where is faffy?

[McGiver]

faffy is preparing a new avatar - that takes 9 months.

[stealthelephant]

i personally would say god is always right, but he nevers actually speaks or says anything :confused:

[georgeatef]

i personally would say god is always right, but he nevers actually speaks or says anything :confused:

agree: God is always right
disagree: he nevers actually speaks or says nothing
matterfact: he keeps telling us manythings but we are so so busy that we don't notice and we don't talk with him even for 5 min a day. God's will like any father's will likes to talk to his beloved children and they talk with him, just try to talk with him & u'll see amazing things.

God do everything for our benefit even if we thought that it is a bad thing, all is done for the best. that is my belief.

[stealthelephant]

i have yet to hear a big voice in the sky

[McGiver]

he keeps telling us manythings but we are so so busy that we don't notice and we don't talk with him even for 5 min a day
replace "he" with "she" and you have my mum

[farafiro]

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawm
what a thread, and I'm finaly here, I was off to the shore for the last 3 days and too lazy to read all of this
...maybe he is just digging in the sand to find the truth.
lol

Now, for that story which I think it doesn't need all of this trouble.
me also heard the story as exactly you have wrote it Warrior, never saw it on that mentiond TV program.
But I've heard this story from a lotta ppl -as it's a bit old story- and all of then say it in a different way with more or less details, as you know when people gets excited with a story they dream of something and tell it as it's a true story, but no one of the tellers -when aske- have seen that mentiond tv pro.
So, the conclusion is I can say yes it's a true as I didn't see it with my own eyes or even heard it from the source
and as these kinda stories may cause a lotta confliction, damages in relations,...... etc. and for these mentioned reasons,I can't say that this is a very true story

;)
thanks
and keep the forgiveness spirit :D

[senocular]

welcome back :) and thanks for getting to the thread ;) It must have been daunting to go through it all heh

[farafiro]

yup
it reminded me a little with this foolish battle between me and Pixelwit
;)

[Warrior]

Well, thanks for that faffy, I believe it because for God nothing is impossible.


is the battle over or taking a break :D

[tg]

whether its over or not (it may never end).... it sure has made for an entertaining weekend. thanks everyone.

[stealthelephant]

personally i dont believe it,
god is a scientist - why would he do something with no scientific basis?

[senocular]

yeah, my friend recently got out of a speeding ticket by blaming aggravation on a religious argument. Keep that one in mind the next time you think about who God is and what he means.

[freddycodes]

I am too bored to continue.


I believe it because for God nothing is impossible


But with statements like this, I am sure I can manage a few more posts.

By the way I sent God a PM asking if the story was true. He said "This is your first warning"

Warrior, are you God?

[Warrior]

Yes yes that one ^^ never gets old

[freddycodes]

Sure hope God has an account on as.org so he can see your wish.

[tg]

hehhehheh. thats a great pick/caption. hehheh.

[McGiver]

of course he has. he just calls himself Warrior here

(I love spamming this thread :p )

[freddycodes]

Me too. Its too fun.

[Warrior]

Me too. Its too fun.

Well............

[freddycodes]

Hey Warrior? Do you have a full-time job?

[Warrior]

why? do you?

[senocular]

that would be a no

[freddycodes]

why? do you?
Yes I do, more than a full-time job. 50+ hours a week at my day job and another 10 or so on side projects.

[Warrior]

Yes I do, more than a full-time job. 50+ hours a week at my day job and another 10 or so on side projects.

Bravo *claps three times very slowly*

[annexion]

It's funny that you think he is lying.

[tg]

warrior never said he was lying... but it does kinda sound like he couldn't care less. heh.

[freddycodes]

Warrior I will tell you what blows me away.

You calling yourself a christian. You are the furthest thing away from being what I consider a christian to be.

Are you really a christian?

[freddycodes]

I actually don't care what he thinks. But he is rather mysterious, and that is the only reason I keep this thread alive. Trying to get into his head to see what he is all about.

[farafiro]

ok guys
anyone want anything from in here
I'm outta here and......
I keep my openion to myself
;)

[Warrior]

It's funny that you think he is lying.

Boy, your IQ must -200 :eek:

warrior never said he was lying... but it does kinda sound like he couldn't care less. heh. Yeah that's pretty much about it actually.

I actually don't care what he thinks. But he is rather mysterious, and that is the only reason I keep this thread alive. Trying to get into his head to see what he is all about. Then just leave it at that. Some things are best left unsolved.

Thanks Faffy, you may depart now.


Door on your right.


no the other way.

[annexion]

Boy, your IQ must -200

Yes, it's must -200. :D




And folks, you'll have to excuse Warrior. He's on another rampage. He'll go on for a while continuing to burn bridges, then he'll disappear for a couple of months, whereupon he'll return as if nothing happened. The latter of which is merely to save face. We all know how fragile and vulnerable he really is on the inside. ;)

[binkyboo]

He uses the term 'hate' loosely. I'd say this is unconventional for a 'practicing' Christian.

http://forum.flashvacuum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2016

Thank you all for this comedic relief!

[annexion]

No no, thank you. :D :D :D

[Warrior]

He uses the term 'hate' loosely. I'd say this is unconventional for a 'practicing' Christian.

http://forum.flashvacuum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2016

Thank you all for this comedic relief!


AND WHAT THE **** HAS IT GOT TO DO WITH YOU [edited]. GO CRYING TO YOUR HUSBAND **** HEAD.

[tg]

hehhehheh... this thread is too much. hehheh... everyone send this thread to 2 people, and share the love.

[annexion]

Haha, TG, you're such a two-faced [edited]head...

[tg]

hehhehheh. i just can't stop laughing!

[annexion]

I've got an idea...

Everyone try to guess Warrior's age right now.




AND WHAT THE **** HAS IT GOT TO DO WITH YOU [edited]. GO CRYING TO YOUR HUSBAND **** HEAD.

Good thing I've got my handy-dandy swear-jar handy, or else I'd have seen some pottymouth words. And that's bad for pristine ears such as mine.

[Warrior]

what a bunch of sad pathetic old timers loosers.

[senocular]

judging from the picture... 1!


"Blast!"

[stealthelephant]

warrior tried to let this go but u guys don't know when to stop, the ignore button is a good button, learn to use it when u dont want to talk to someone, i would consider this bullying if i was at work

[tg]

warrior tried to let this go but u guys don't know when to stop, i would consider this bullying if i was at work


alright, alright. i'll quite, but it is kinda funny.

[binkyboo]

warrior tried to let this go but u guys don't know when to stop, i would consider this bullying if i was at work

hah, that's laughable man!

[annexion]

warrior tried to let this go but u guys don't know when to stop, the ignore button is a good button, learn to use it when u dont want to take to someone, i would consider this bullying if i was at work
Was that before or after he pmed me a threat?

[stealthelephant]

after

[freddycodes]

what a bunch of sad pathetic old timers loosers.

Again how so very christian of you. Why don't you post the name of your church so we can show your pastor just how well you represent the christian faith.

[Warrior]

Thanks stealthelephant.

alright, alright. i'll quite, but it is kinda funny.
You're FAT.

//Hey tom, it's not Van it's just a FAT man. Here's some chocolate Fatso


hah, that's laughable man! What is wrong with FAT people? She grew in size so much that she collapsed into her self like a neutron star.

Again how so very christian of you. Thank You

Why don't you post the name of your church No

[binkyboo]

AND WHAT THE **** HAS IT GOT TO DO WITH YOU [edited]. GO CRYING TO YOUR HUSBAND **** HEAD.

I have a husband? I don't think my wife would appreciate that.........or me for that matter.

[freddycodes]

This thread just keeps getting better and better. And warrior's hole deeper and deeper.

[Warrior]

This thread just keeps getting better and better. And warrior's hole deeper and deeper. You're the one to talk sh*t head. You started this mess :mad:

You knew how I was going to react and you still done even tho I told you to STOP!!

I have a husband? I don't think my wife would appreciate that.........or me for that matter.

[Billy T]

Guys

this whole fight could have been avoided if someone had bothered to go straight to the source to see if the story was true or not...

[Warrior]

Billy T, this is the point of this thread. Trying to find out if it's true or not. Faffy was the source of this story so I was trying to find out. I told him from the first page not to flame me but he kept on doing it and now we have a 8 page thread.

[McGiver]

sometimes people just don't get when its better for themselves to shut up.

Warrior - seems the others get the difference between insults and basic flaming and you don't, so this is addressed to you.
I don't want to flame you and I don't really care about anything what was said in this thread, but don't you think your attempts to overtrump the others' and your own previous posts with hostility is a good idea?

[jubei]

You knew how I was going to react and you still done even tho I told you to STOP!!

Fwoar. Hi everyone.. nice thread. Warrior, don't try to blame other people for your own actions. How you act (or react) is all entirely up to you, and expecting others to be responsible is just passing the buck.

The only thing I hate more than that is someone who tries to use open hostility to win an argument.. that is, overreact so much people back off out of fear.

You've done that too.

[Ricod]

*doesn`t feel like reading 8 pages of ranting* Is this a new fight, or is it still related to the previous one ?

[freddycodes]

You're the one to talk sh*t head. You started this mess


Your terms of endearment are so special. Thats what I love about you.

[annexion]

Freddy, you're so cute. :blush:

[freddycodes]

Hey who is "the rest of us" do you have a rabbit in your pocket?

[farafiro]

Faffy was the source of this storysorry mate, I wasn't the source of this, you were just asking me if this is true or not.
Now if you wanna read about such things that happens in Egypt, go here:
www.copts.net
but IMO this is not a very reliable site, so make your own mind when you read the articles in there
Thanks

[Warrior]

Fwoar. Hi everyone.. nice thread. Warrior, don't try to blame other people for your own actions. How you act (or react) is all entirely up to you, and expecting others to be responsible is just passing the buck.

The only thing I hate more than that is someone who tries to use open hostility to win an argument.. that is, overreact so much people back off out of fear.

You've done that too.


Don't give me that sh*t man :mad:

Just go back to the first page and see who started it instead of just skimming through it.

[tg]

see, now how can i stay away when billyt goes and posts a pic like that. that just cracks me up.

[Jesse]

Look everyone, it's late, I'm sick again, so forgive me for not being all cheery about this. We (me and Strok) are well and truly sick of these flame wars which seem ever more prevalent. Ahhh the good old days.

I think we can all see a thousand points where this thread could have taken better turns. While it may be slightly amusing, we and the other moderators really don't appreciate having to actually 'moderate' the conversations of mature adults. Seriously guys: knock it off!

Make your points in a civil manner, with wit and vigor by all means. We don't even mind arguments, but personal attacks are not on. If I have to edit one more post of swear words I swear I'll flip out and perm ban the offender.

Now you have ALL been warned ;) Goodnight.

[Jesse]

Oh, by the way, in case it isn't obvious. This is the end of this thread. No one was right or wrong. No one started it. It's just over. Move on with your lives. :)