who owns source? client or developer?

[dogstar]

I client ive had for the last 2 years, has asked me for the source for a header menu i made with their website. Its not a super-complicated job for you flash gurus out there. But i wonder what policies you guys have in regards who owns the source. Giveng them the source means they can themselves update the menus, and put me out of the loop. In average this has been a 4 hours of work a year for me so its not a big deal, but nor is it a big deal for them to pay me to do it. Ive made the dynamic menu very easy for me to update, in such a way that they dont need to know much flash to be able to update it. There was no inital agreement that they would own or get the source.

So what do i do? Give it to them? Sell it to them? Refuse them having it?

For you who wants to see it go to: www.syn
ronos.no

While im at it, ill make a poll too :)

[CyanBlue]

Howdy and Welcome... :)

If you signed the contact that says what you have worked on belongs to the company, it belongs to the company... If you signed the contact that says you own the code, it's yours... If you did not sign the contact at all, it belongs the company...

That's how I have heard so far... :)

[Xeef]

Hmmmmmmm

i woud say if there is no contract then the code belongs to Me !??

im mean normaly they say somthing like we need a side which do this and that
and NOT we need code which do this and that

another thing if they come a yeahr later (Sorry i just erease the project yesterday :( )

or even beter im such a profi that i write anything in bytecode which they already get :)

[Ozero]

photographers and videographers i've dealt with feep negatives and source materials by default, and many change to give them up..

(many hang onto old materials for .. what is it.. 3 years? Just in case.. 3 years having to do with some tax crap or something... like after 3 years, theyre clear to dump it and forget it...)

i've taken a similar philosophy in my graphic work... most cients dont know what to do with a PSD anyway.. i've never been asked for them... when the times comes, i'll probably wimp out, and just hand it over anyway...

Besides, if it's something a client can change, then it probably wouldnt have made me much money anyway...

unless they're handing it over to a different artist to do something more elaborate.... but i'm not THAT worried....

Personally, my move would be to have over the source, and say something like "Alright, take it, but if you need help doing something, I'm gonna do it, and it'll be on the clock"....

[Cota]

Usually, the company retains rights to the source, unless otherwise agreed upon. Most companies, by default, own any work you do if you it on their premises. At least thats how its down in corp. America.

Also, they hired you as a service, not a product.

[Ozero]

well, since he said "client" it implies it was not on the company's property.. (correct me if i'm wrong)...

I know for myself, i do my work on my own premesis unless i'm going to thier place to plan things in a meeting, or whatnot....

this also implies that the client may not be in a business where they have any _real_ use for source... but i'm stretching a bit into the hypothetical, off-topicness...

[Cota]

I guess debating the "past" issue at hand is pointless. Use the advice here for future reference to avoid situations like these.

[dogstar]

Hi all. Thanks for the replies. Nothing has pushed me in either direction, as there are arguments both ways.

Ozero: The work was done on my own equipment, software, in my own office/(computer spot next to the tv).

Any more opinions? How does it work in other software developer areas?

[CyanBlue]

I ain't reading no more, but there are many stuff you can read from the Internet... So, google away... :)

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=7587

[Ricod]

It's not really clear to me ... what did you agree on beforehand ? Did you sign a contract ? If so, what's in it. Basically, I'm just elaborating on CB's post here, but still. With the exception of "no contract, company owns", because like Xeef, I say "No payment ? Then it's mine." So, if they really want them, either sell it to them for a set price, or give it to them, in exchange for a contract stating that whenever that work is being used, it's done by you for as long as the contract states. Oh wait, that's basically what Ozero said. ;)

[pmheart6]

You agreed to create a web page. You gave them that.

However, it is a personal opinion and policy that you/your company must decide as to who owns the source material.

If you give them all the work automatically, upon request, or not, its up to your policy.

If you build the price into the initial cost, charge extra, refuse giving the material away at any cost, its up to your policy.

Do you want to appear friendly, business like, a hoarder, or just plain mean or greedy. That is something you must work out.

Then if there was a contract signed its what was agreed upon. What does your web page say. I.e. I will provide a web page. One again you gave them that.

If you take it on a case by case basis, things to consider are:
--Are they someone that may refer to others.
--What is the cost to you. (in continued income, initial cost, etc.)
--Will they talk bad about you.

I would probably default to giving it to them. Say, its normally x% more for the source. Then either charge that or give them a deal. Then spell it out in your terms.

But be careful of what you say in your terms. If its a one time project, you don't want to lose money because they don't want the source, but you don't want to scare someone off by charging too much. Scaring them off means they may not want you for continued support.

Perhaps Agree upon future charges up front too. So they know it won't be so much.

Finding out what the goals and future are is a part of the intake, price quote, and terms quoted.

[sfhazel]

The way I've always understood it is that anything you create is copyright the creator unless stated or agreed upon otherwise. So, if you create a website, the content and code is still copyright the creator, even if the website itself is "owned" by the client. This gives you the right to re-use your code in other projects. Buying or agreeing to selling the copyright to the code gives them exclusive rights to it. This means that only they can use and re-use the code from that point foward, per the details of whatever contract you sign. If you didn't sign anything, then it remains the right of the initial owner, you the creator.

It is for this reason that I always have an author metatag on the sites I make with my name and email address.

[ubergrafik]

In Australia, if you are working for a company, ANYTHING you do, even outside work, is theirs.
As far as contracting, what ever you agree to is theirs. E.g they don't own the mockups, proof of concept, or anthing like that, just whatever the deliverable that was agreed to in the contract. Make sure you have a contract!

If you want to use smething in your folio, get a letter from whever the work was made for giving you permission. As far as it all goes, if you are up front and have an agreement in writing, then there's no surprises for any one later :)

[tsj4]

Never have I given the client my .fla but I do also define that in the contract. But you also said you built the navigation so someone could update with little flash knowledge. Why would they need little flash knowledge if they don't have the fla to edit? I always build so the client doesn't have to know flash at all. As the contractor you need to define the contract appropriately and if you don't it is usually to your demise. Since they are established and have the resources to drag you around in court maybe holding on to a few lines of code isn't worth it especially since you will probably lose this client for any future work after this disagreement.