Need some opinions

[Vman]

I'm actually kind of embarassed to be posting this, but I need some opinions to see if I am wrong here. This has been eating at me for over a week now and I need to get it off my chest.

I have a good friend who I did some work for recently. I've been friends with this guy for years. The work consisted of the following:

1. business cards
2. CD cover design - front, insert and back cover
3. A Web site - The site incorporates php/MySQL and Flash. The whole site is dynamic meaning that they can login to an administation page and update the whole site by just filling in text boxes and areas and clicking "update", "delete", and "add" buttons. A total of 48 pages between the viewable pages and the administration pages.

For their photo page, from scratch, I created a dynamic Flash image viewer. All they have to do is optimize their photos and throw the folder onto their ftp site. The AS/php dynamically creates a button for the new folder and that's it. The thumbnails are arrayed in scrollable columns and ready to be clicked.

I converted their whole CD into MP3 samples .

I did a flash navigation for their Bios pages. A separate page for each member - 6 band, 3 crew.

I did all this for $2k

Now, you as web designers can imagine how long this took to complete (and it's still not 100%)

So, here's the quagmire. The other day he tells me, in the event it comes up, he doesn't want me to do work for other bands that play similar songs that they do, just because they're competition. It's just business.

I couldn't believe it! :mad:

After all of the hard work and time I put into this project he has the nerve to request that!?!? I'm supposed to turn away $$$ to support his ego. If I were to do a site for one of these other bands, it would have no financial impact on this band whatsoever. It would just mean that they wouldn't have the nicest looking site anymore. People don't come out to see these guys because of their web site, they come out because they're good.

Me, on the other hand, I could use the extra cash.

I almost want to give him his money back and let them go back to their old crappy site.

I know this whole thing sounds pathetic as were grown men, but I just need to find out if I'm the one who's wrong here. Because if I am, maybe I need to do some soul searching or something. :(

[CyanBlue]

Howdy... :)

I THINK I know what site you are talking about... :D and I CANNOT believe that you did all that just for 2k... Are you trying to set a low standard??? :mad: :p

The bottom line... Did you have a contract which says that you are not allowed to create another site for another band blah blah??? I bet you did inot... Well... There it is then... No need to discuss it any further... You can just say 'Um... I'll think about it... By the way, are you going to give me more money if I ask you nicely???'... Well... I am sure the answer is absolutely 'No Way'... Just smile at them and walk away... :)
You are not obligated to do that for their own advantage without any compensation... That's the bottom line...

If somebody ask you to create another site that's similar to the site, then just do the job and don't add any indication that YOU did the job... That way, you don't have to fist fight with any of them... Doncha think??? :)

[Cota]

I'm going to agree and disagree with you CyanBlue.....Yes, he has no obligations. And this band has no right to demand that you NOT take work from other bands....F* them.
Here is where I disagree with you, the part about not adding any indication he did the site....hell no....Vman, put your name on all your work, be proud of your work....I wouldnt hide it, others wouldnt hide it, why should you..If your "friend", and I use that term losely, has a problem with it, tell him to play in traffic. Its your sweat and work in that site, not his...Hell, you should clone it for another band on principle alone.

[Vman]

Are you trying to set a low standard???
No, nothing like that. :) When you do work for friends you kind of expect to get screwed. But he is my "friend" and I wanted to give him a nice looking site. It was also kind of a challenge to myself and a learning experience. I would never do it again.

There is probably about a 1% chance that any of these other bands (which I happen to know a lot of these guys from playing in bands myself) will even ask. They're local cover bands and they can't afford nice stuff. :D It was just the fact that he requested such a thing that ticked me off.

There were a couple off female co-workers in the lunch room that overheard our conversation and, supposedly, according to him, one of them said to him, "and he's supposed to be your friend?" I'm sure they don't know how much time I spent on this project, but that kind of stung a little bit. I'm one of those people that actually cares what people think of me. :rolleyes:

If somebody ask you to create another site that's similar to the site, then just do the job and don't add any indication that YOU did the job... That way, you don't have to fist fight with any of them... Doncha think???
Easier said than done. Everybody knows everybody. The guy we're talking about actually stands in for these other bands if one of their members gets sick or can't make a show or something. Get that! Can you say hypocracy? :D

You are not obligated to do that for their own advantage without any compensation... That's the bottom line... Agreed!

What it comes down to is that, after doing this thing and spending as much time on it as I did, and getting paid what I got paid, for him to request that didn't seem like much of a friend. Especially knowing that I'm trying to get this side business going and growing a clientele. He wants me to turn potential clients away......just to support an ego?

I know you saw the site, and thanks for the compliment :) in the other post, but if I had spent more time on the graphic end (and not on the infamous image viewer! :D ), I could have made it way better.

Sorry to be wasting AS.org's bandwidth with this silly crap. :D

[CyanBlue]

"and he's supposed to be your friend?"
Well... I can't actually agree more than that...
Tell them S* you and do what you've got to do... End of discussion... :)

[Vman]

"and he's supposed to be your friend?"
Supposedly, they were saying that to him....ABOUT ME!!! :eek: That's why I had to find out if I was the one out of line here.

And this band has no right to demand that you NOT take work from other bands....F* them. Cheers! (How come as.org doesn't have a smiley with a beer mug like Kirupa?)

[Colin Campbell]

Everyone needs to make a living, last time I checked, it was your life to live and not his, and as long as you have no verbal or written agreement not to do other bands' sites, he can pitter patter around all he wants about how you should be kept exclusive, you've gotta pay the rent, you've gotta pay the bills, you've gotta find food to put on the table, not him. As far as I'm concerned, this is a none issue. Tell him to get out of your business and stick to his.

[Vman]

Thanks a lot for the sanity check guys. It took me a while to get up the nerve to post this because it seems so childish, but I had to get some unbiased opinions. For a while there, I started to think that maybe I WAS the ***hole. :p

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

Just tell him you won't do other bands websites, then get a new alias for any other websites you put contact information on, how's he gonna know anyway?? Unless he spends his saturdays visiting every bands website in the world looking for your name :p

Eric :D

[Vman]

Thanks for the suggestion mmm..pi..3.14.., but I think I like cota's suggestion the best! :D That was funny. :p

All the cover bands know each other around here. They all use the same agents and they all play at the same places. Unfortunately, a lot of them play all of the same songs too which is where the so-called competition comes in.

But their competition had (slightly) better sites than their old one. Theirs was horrible and I think I gave it a pretty good facelift for what material I had to work with. The only way the new site is really going to benefit them is when festival committees hire them for big summer events. Now they have something presentable. As I said before, the music makes the band, not the web site. ;)

[Cota]

I do bands sites also, and played in bands once upon a moon....Dude, you do your thing and forget that ass.....I'll take his hand and lead him to traffic myself...No one can tell you what work you can or cant do..

[Vman]

I agree with you 100%. That's why I started this thread. That, and the matter of a couple of women at the office apparently thinking that I'm a jerk now. According to him, they were agreeing with him, but I haven't confirmed that yet.:)

And all that work I did......for him to.....AGHH!!! Don't get me started again. I don't need to beat up another pillow tonight! :D

[farafiro]

Hi Vman, I just wonder how old are you??, I guess early 20s
why?? coz i used to be like you, and still- in this part i mean I'm one of those people that actually cares what people think of me.but after over 13yrs work exp. after graduation and 8 yrs b4, I do care about other but in limits to my life and benfits also. I've screwd myself loads of time because of that but after these years can't say i've regret as much i've learnt

now, i'm almost with Cota 100%, Cyanblue 50%
you eithe go to him and charge for every work that you have and say no to it as he wants, or you proudly do it
and don't give him back the money -if u can call it so for such a big work- but ask for more as you were going to get if you did this for others

and one last thing: just cheer up, you have learnt lotta thing while doing this and also has an advertisment for your work
show me the link pls

[Vman]

Hey farafiro, I haven't talked to you in a long time. You helped me out a lot a couple years ago when I was working on my first site.:)
Hi Vman, I just wonder how old are you??, I guess early 20s
You're way off! Actually, I'm in my mid 30's. That's why it this was so hard to post because this whole thing seems so very childish. I knew I was right about this, but I couldn't get him to understand why it was so wrong to even suggest such a thing to me.

Thanks for the input and Happy New Year!

[Cota]

Yeah Vman....I want to see the work too. Make with the links..........

[tikigod]

I've done no-compete work before, so my response to him would have been real simple and somewhat in agreement with CB:

"Sorry, our original deal didn't include a no-compete discussion. I'll adjust the price accordingly: it's now $15k. Otherwise you owe me $2k. Sorry dude, it's just business"

I'd also like to see the site.

[Vman]

Thanks once again everybody for the backup. He and I have recently had some civilized conversations and I think he has come to realize that he may be wrong for asking this of me.

Friends sometimes go through these ordeals and we have been friends for a long time and I wish to remain friends with him. But I would rather not post the link just in case someone feels compelled to share their views with him. Their have been some strong feelings shared and the forms on their site were made for fan mail and things like that, not hate mail. :D

Now that we are seeing eye to eye, I wouldn't want to create another disturbance. I'm sure you understand. :)

[CyanBlue]

Good to hear that you guys have worked out the problem... :)

Okay... The URL for the site is this : http://www.dontbothervmanzbusiness.com :D

[Cota]

You cant judge its worth based on looks...remember windows 3.1........look aweful, but worth a lot.....but it looks nice and the image gallery alone is probably worth 2k. You know what I say to those that cant appreciate the work you put into it, F*'em. Looks like you busted your ass on that site and it shows...

[Vman]

remember windows 3.1........look aweful, but worth a lot
Actually, no I don't. I never touched a computer until Windows 95 came out. But I'll take your word for it.:)
but it looks nice and the image gallery alone is probably worth 2k. You know what I say to those that cant appreciate the work you put into it, F*'em. Looks like you busted your ass on that site and it shows.. Thanks Cota. That's nice of you to say. Have a Happy New Year!

[Cota]

Nice, but its true...enjoy the night..