Advertisements?

[senocular]

Yikes, whats with the ads? I didnt like the banner between the posts and the quick reply, but I felt I could live with it. However, I certainly didnt like the Advertisement "Post" I saw in a thread. Thats... thats just not right.

[Jesse]

I've got some time on my hands so I'm experimenting with different things. The current layout will remain for a week at least while we test it out. There's been a colossal uproar at the idea of context sensitive inline ads – fine, we hear you - so I'm trying to find something which is not only OK by users but also actually works.

Banners at the top of Forum were languishing with the worlds most pitiful click rates. We’re talking 0.05% or lower! Today I've implemented two new styles, both of which Senocular has aptly spotted :) They are: an ad immediately above the Quick Reply box and an ad below the first post of each thread (so long as the thread is more than X posts long). The layout and color schemes were what I was happiest with: they don't break up the otherwise clean look of the Forums.

I welcome open discussion about preferences for these sorts of things here. As always user opinion will be a considerable factor in whatever final decision we come to...

While you're commenting think about how the forums work. Each time you contribute to a thread you become subscribed. From then on you get update emails which lead you directly to the posts which follow yours. Anyone else spot the problem for us there? :) That's right! The anchors in the links which are emailed to you will not only take you to the correct thread but neatly scroll the page to the appropriate post for you. As such, banners at the top of the forums are hardly ever seen, despite so many users visiting the forums. That's not good for advertisers, which isn't good for the site, which isn't good for you guys ultimately.

Other options we've considered in the past, such as sidebar advertisements (skyscrapers on the left of the forums basically), have not been well received by users. I'm starting to wonder if you people aren't all just old dogs scared of new tricks :)

Comments, suggestions, and reasonable complaints welcome. Thanks for getting us start Seno :)

[jjbilly]

I wonder about why the banners were ineffective... I'm not sure that it's that they're not seen - after all, most people DO come into the forums from the top at least some of the time - (unless you're subscribed to 'i love this song' in which case you never need to go elsewhere to cover the whole gamut) - to find new threads.

Almost every single top-of-page banner I've ever been served is an advert for google.sk - a general knowledge question, which links to that search term - all in Slovak (as far as I can tell). If others were being similarly badly targetted, it's little wonder the click-through rate was so low. Could it be worth trying another provider for those top-of-page banners and seeing if the rates increase any?

I don't think the post ads are terribly offensive, but they are definitely an annoyance in a way the top-of-page banners aren't - something to skip past, rather than look at.

[Jesse]

Yeah I've noticed those targeting mishaps recently too. They seem to have begun about the same time as Google's reshuffle of sites. You may have heard people talking about how their sites suddenly dropped off page 1 of Google's search results in the last few weeks.

Today I disabled Google's ability to view the Location parameter of users. Now you only see that field if your registered. Apparently this can also lead to weird geographical targeting of ads. Unfortunately Google has the whole forums indexed now so we may have to wait a while for them to refresh their cache on the 300,000 posts which they know about already :)

So far I'm hearing "Post-ad: bad. Quick Reply ad: not so bad".

[Laguana]

You mention horrible click-through rates... I've personally only intentionally clicked on an add once, and that was just recently. I, as a frequenter of the internet, have trained myself to just ignore all forms of ads. I don't personally think that adding in more, or moving them around will increase things all that much. I can't speak for others, but the ads just don't appeal to me (and some are just odd, for example, a google ad on this very page is offering to sell me advertisments.) After all that though, i can't really offer much of a solution, other than somehow making ads appeal to everyone, which isn't likely.

[Ricod]

Me agree. Post-ad BAD. Quick-reply-ad OK.

I use the quick reply option all the time and for me it gets a whole lot more 'screen time' than the first few posts of a thread.

Then again, when you're just browsing the forums looking for answers, you may never get near the area of the quick reply box. Also, when I'm replying I won't touch no banners, no matter how interesting they may seem, until I'm finished replying. Of course, once the page refreshes you may get a whole new ad altogether ... :rolleyes:

But personally, I find a post-ad very intrusive and it breaks up the whole thread. One minute you're reading about somebody's problem, very much like your own and the next one you're reading about where to get 20% off on a book that's supposed to have all the answers. It's for the same reason I don't watch movies on tv and only watch it on a DVD (preferably one where I can immedeately go to the main movie).

[tg]

do jesse.... put in the post adds, the quick reply add, all of the inline adds, the banner add on top and throw in a sky scrapper add as well....


no, but really, ignoring the 'post' add is no harding than ignoring some of the posts i browse.... just something to get used to....
fire it up.... these forums must be the largest expense on this site, you need it to generate some cash also...

[CyanBlue]

Me agree. Post-ad BAD. Quick-reply-ad OK. ^______^

Maybe this is just me, but my eyes are well trained to spot where the ad is located and ignore them no matter where they are... :D

Besides, lots of spyware program has an option to not display those ads automatically... Maybe that's why the click through rate is so low???

My 2 cents is that the online ad won't generate as much revenue as it did a couple years back no matter which kind of ad we are serving... On top of that, our users are well focused on one specific area, web development, and not much of ads we see are something that's really eye catching...
Think about it... Why would I click on the link that leads me to Macromedia.com or the site that says 'Online Advertising'??? That's not enticing ad... The rules of thumb is that you'll need to put cute puppy/hot chick/flying $$$... :D

[CyanBlue]

I'll be really happy if the click on the ad opens up in the new window... ;)

[senocular]

I'll be really happy if the click on the ad opens up in the new window... ;)

what browser are you using? I middle-mouse almost anything ad-related or external to open in a new tab (FF)

[CyanBlue]

Well... IE6... :rolleyes:

[senocular]

then use SHIFT ;)

[CyanBlue]

You just don't know how lazy I am... :D

[senocular]

right click > new window?

doesnt require moving all the way to the keyboard, but it does mean an extra click

[CyanBlue]

Oh, come on... You know that I don't really mean that part...
I am basically asking if the link can be open up in the new window by default... ;)

[madgett]

I can see myself browsing through a great thread and then all of the sudden out of the actionscript is a hott babe for sale served fresh and cooked medium rare from google :p. Eh...

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

I don't really care much for the post-ads, but I don't mind the Quick reply ads, I think that's the most nonobstructive way to advertise and make money without lagging the site or getting in the way.

Though I do have one recommendation about the Quick Reply ads...can you please move them below the quick reply box?? I'm just so used to the quick reply box being right below the last post and recently I've been clicking on the ads when I don't mean to. Just move them below the quick reply box...that's all ;)

Eric

[tg]

I'm just so used to the quick reply box being right below the last post and recently I've been clicking on the ads when I don't mean to.
Eric



well, it looks like they have them positioned perfectly then... hehhehheh.

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

well yeah, but I'm sure the admins don't like ads as much as the next guy...they just need to make money, so as long as the ads are on the page, I'm sure they don't mind :)

[senocular]

what about selling merchandise? Id rather buy a t-shirt than click on an ad.

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

Heck yeah!!

I'd love to have a t-shirt...especially an as[org] shirt.

lol, I can see it now. A bunch of flashers at the FlashForward festival and in the corner stands 50+ guys with as[org] shirts....awesome :cool:

Eric

[Ricod]

How about a trenchcoat stating "Flasher" ? :rolleyes:

As long as there's no need to 'force accidental clicks' ... *shudder* You press the 'Post Reply' button and you're taken to some site. :(

[cxn926]

How about a trenchcoat stating "Flasher" ? :rolleyes:

As long as there's no need to 'force accidental clicks' ... *shudder* You press the 'Post Reply' button and you're taken to some site. :(

yea. that would suck

[Jesse]

CB - With Google I don't think we can customize where the links open. I mean I could hack the code but that would invalidate our account and get us in trouble :)

Pi - I'm running at 1280x1024. If you look at a reasonably short last post on my monitor you will see the post, the ad and the first 3/4 of the quick reply box. If we move the add you will see the post, the QR box and the ad will be off screen. And since there's a shortcut to post (Alt S) so people wouldn't have to actually scroll to click the post button... The whole purpose of this move was to increase visibility :)

Note that the purpose of this exercise isn’t to increase random clicks. Most advertisers don’t pay based on clicks anyway. It’s to increase exposure to legitimately interesting ads. Face it, 25,000 of you visit this site each day, some of the combinations of advertisers and visitor MUST work! :)

[Gibberish]

what about selling merchandise? Id rather buy a t-shirt than click on an ad.

I'm down for that. It's pretty cheap to get some t-shirts going.

Oh and the none of the ads really bother me. I guess I have a trained eye too. If I was a new user though I think the post-ads would bother me.

[Jesse]

The merchandise thing is something to consider. We'd need graphics to do it with. Like the site doesn’t have a mascot or even a formal logo at the moment. Hence this thread: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=73138 - which is sorely lacking in replies :) . Personally I've never been inspired to buy such stuff regardless of my commitment to a community - I think that's due to me being smaller than XSm most of the time and never finding a shirt that fits! Of course I too would buy an AS.org one :)

I come bearing (bad?) news. Because I'm sick atm and failed to set up the banner tracking properly we're going to run the current set up as it is for another 24 - 36 hours as a test. Each ad unit has been isolated for performance and we have historic logs of the top running banner. Bear with me while I indulge my curiosity.

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

Pi - I'm running at 1280x1024. If you look at a reasonably short last post on my monitor you will see the post, the ad and the first 3/4 of the quick reply box. If we move the add you will see the post, the QR box and the ad will be off screen. And since there's a shortcut to post (Alt S) so people wouldn't have to actually scroll to click the post button... The whole purpose of this move was to increase visibility :)

Behold! My crummy 1024 x 768 resolution :p

[cxn926]

Behold! My crummy 1024 x 768 resolution :p
lol

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

by the way...that's not what my screen looks like, lol. The file was just oo big to upload so I converted to GIF, reduced the size by a bunch, and reduced the quality ALOT!! :eek:

[Ricod]

Pi ... we believe you. We do ! Really ! Also, my car is actually a Ferrari Enzo. I know, it looks like a Volvo, but that's just to prevent it from being stolen. ;) j/k Pi (I run 1024x768 too, but that's just because otherwise I can't read a thing of my monitor : 19")

Maybe advertising doesn't work as well as people think ? I mean, I've never bought anything based on a commercial. I usually go by recommendations of people I trust. Maybe I just don't trust corporations but I always think, if they have a budget of a couple of million just to tell me about their product, they must make a lot of money with it. Also, if it's really that good, they wouldn't need to tell me. Word spreads fast.

Then again, it works great on tv. "hmm, McDonalds. Yum. Me buy lots of burgers with extra fat cheese, fries with more cheese (mayo here in NL) and a diet coke because I'm with the weight watchers." :rolleyes:

Oh well, that's really not the issue here. The money needs to come frome somewhere. :D

I have to say, the front page banners are usually more interesting to me than the post ads. Maybe because they're more sparkly *ooou...* than those text base post ads.

[Jesse]

Oh yeah I knew I missed a question asked by someone else before: we only run Google ads on the forums at the moment because most ad networks acknowledge the problems I've raised here and ban serving ads on forums. So our hands are tied in that sense, unless we go back to contracting out our own ads which increases administrative overhead and reduces our time. Seriously people, I've thought about this from 100 angles :)

From what I can see so far the quick reply banner is performing better than the post ad, so you may all get your wish tomorrow. The final stats on what performs better overall will be in tomorrow and then we'll see.

Night!

[tg]

the ads are fine jesse...

i would rather you not admin a bunch of advertising, and have more time to work on the site, or just come in and chat with us.

thanks.

[Jesse]

Hehe I'd like that too; the chatting that is. I've only been able to this week because I've been stuck at home, sick :(

I'll make an effort to be around on the forums a bit more starting soon. I think I've just put the finishing touches to something we've been working on for a while, which we're hoping will free up time... The last part is up to Strok. Stay tuned :)

[Ricod]

the ads are fine jesse...

i would rather you not admin a bunch of advertising, and have more time to work on the site, or just come in and chat with us.

thanks.
I concur ! :cool:

Since both you and Strok are swimming in work, maybe there's the possibility of getting a third person on board, you know, for 'public relations' and stuff. Then again, you probably want to keep the complete management between you and Strok. Too many captains, otherwise. :(

[bluegel]

I noticed the ads, but i just rolled down and overlooked them

[hangalot]

Eric,

your new signature is killing my machine when you post a lot under one topic.
the page i am currently looking at had to load that component 5 times and the page takes a few seconds to recover. this is on my laptop which is (1.8 ghz centrino with 2 gb of ram), so not totally lacking on the resource side...

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

Yeah, noticed that too...I'll take it out :(

[tg]

Eric,

your new signature is killing my machine when you post a lot under one topic.
the page i am currently looking at had to load that component 5 times and the page takes a few seconds to recover. this is on my laptop which is (1.8 ghz centrino with 2 gb of ram), so not totally lacking on the resource side...


heh. i use addblock in firefox, and pretty much block all the flash footers... works great.

[mmm..pi..3.14..]

It was lagging alot more than I'd like it too. Maybe I should just post it into a thread?? That way it only shows up once and people can choose to see it if they want. Does that seem worth it? That's the only thing I don't like about Flash Components, they're just giant complicated movieclips which suck the life out of processors, plus the RSS feed where it was getting it's info from is quite large. The stuff you actually saw was probably less that half of what's in the XML file.

Eric

[cxn926]

****. Ricod. it just linked me to a msn detergant ad when i clicked the reply thingy it did reply but it linked to that.

[CyanBlue]

****. Ricod. it just linked me to a msn detergant ad when i clicked the reply thingy it did reply but it linked to that.
Ricod and msn are the only two things that I can understand logically... What did you drink last night, cxn926??? :D

[Ricod]

*only reads what he wants to read*

Finally someone who understands me logically ! Now, just to find someone who understands me emotionally and I'm done for the day. ;)

[Jesse]

Hey everyone. Just wanted to thank you for sticking by the experiment. As requested by most of you, the Post Ads are now gone. The Quick Reply will stay for exposure reasons, and the old ad at the top of the forums will likely come back.

No complaints please, that's how it's gonna be :) Hope you're all cool. Take care,

[CyanBlue]

Cool... Do we get to see the hot guy/gal in the ad??? Pretty please??? :D

I'm happy that the post ads are gone... Yay... ;)

[Ricod]

I'm cool with it. :cool: This looks a lot cleaner then with the post ads.
Thanks Jesse and Strok !
@CB : Jason ! :mad: What will your wife say if she'd know you say this ! The couch for you ! :D

[CyanBlue]

Well... I don't mind the couch if I can see the hot ones... :D