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AniComUS
10-24-2005, 01:15 AM
I looked at the v2 to v3 comparison list and it is shockingly different. It would seem that we need an ActionScript 3 forum and a lot of tutorials soon.

With Player 8.5 will there be good backward compatibilitiy for "removed" expressions? Will v2 survive for a long time side-by-side with v3?

Overview:
http://labs.macromedia.com/wiki/index.php/ActionScript_3:overview

V2 to V3 Comparison:
http://livedocs.macromedia.com/labs/1/flex/langref/migration.html

oldnewbie
10-24-2005, 01:27 AM
If you ask me... Don't think it will be, in the coming week, month or even year!

Even the Flash player 7 (on which I'm still on) hasn't yet reached it's expected penetration...

So although you might be on Flash 8, you'll still have to publish for Flash 6 or even lower, for yet some time ahead...

My 2 cents for what it's worth!

CyanBlue
10-24-2005, 01:34 AM
Flash Player 8.5 will have two virtual machines built in...
AVM1 for AS1/2 codes and AVM2 for AS3 codes...(Remeber AS2 code gets compiled down to AS1 no matter what???)

I do agree with oldnewbie on that... About 90% of my projects at work gets published for FP6 since the main clients will be the school and I don't see it changing as fast as I want it to be... I might be able to fiddle with some 8.5 codes for fun, but it won't be applied to any of my work projects, that's for sure... Of course, it is totally different story when I talk about my personal projects, but I am somewhat hesitant to even install Flex Builder 2 on this machine... Hopefully pretty soon...

madgett
10-24-2005, 04:07 AM
I can't wait for AS3.0, finally a more structured programming package. A lot easier to extend. Plus, will be easier to program with actionscript conforming tight to ECMAScript.

billingsgate
10-24-2005, 08:03 AM
From the looks of it, I will curse the day when I have to use Action Script 3. For those of us from non-coding backgrounds, which according to Macromedia's own statistics, is 55 percent of its customer base, AS2 is relatively learnable and a lot is based on plain English.

It looks as if AS3 adds a lot of redundant text to the code ("flash.display.DisplayObject.scaleY" instead of "_yscale"), and also becomes more obscure from the "plain English" point of view. And it seems there will be a lot of things that will have to be un-learned and then learned again from scratch.

You coders may find this stimulating. I find it a frigging pain in the tuchas.

In any case, at least I can relax in the knowledge that it won't be an issue for at least a couple years. As with everyone else, I still have to output SWFs in either 6 or 7 format for clients. It'll be at least a year until some of them start accepting Flash 8 Player, and another 2 years or more before AS3 will be practical. By then I hope to be so rich and successful that I'll hire one of you wonderful and brilliant people to do the coding for me!

jsebrech
10-24-2005, 11:24 AM
billingsgate, things won't change as much as you think. Some stuff gets renamed, but it won't be like you think it will. Your example is not an actual problem. You'll just have to substitute scaleY for _yscale, and things should work fine.

There are some things that will make it a lot easier to code. Like how function objects now remember the object in which they were created, so you no longer need to use Delegate when attaching event handlers to listeners. That'll lead to a big decrease of questions of the sort here, which seems to crop up constantly.

Clox
10-24-2005, 03:04 PM
i'll have to say to me it looks like AS is turning into a more logical language

AniComUS
10-24-2005, 04:10 PM
Where Will We Be Able To Use V3? Will We Have To Buy Flash 9, Or Flex2, Or Will Be Able To Use V3 With Flash 8 (perhaps With Some Download Plugin)? When And Where Will That Be Possible?

If We Will Have A Year Or Two Of Grace Before It Becomes A Standard, I Would Like To Get Moving On A Path Of Learning.

Do You Think That New Swf Files Written In V3 Would Be Able To Play Old Swf Files Written In V2 If Those Old Swf Files Are Loaded Into The New Swf File?

CyanBlue
10-24-2005, 04:29 PM
You could use AS 3.0 by using the alpha version of the Flex Builder 2 which you can download from here...
http://labs.macromedia.com/

Since it will be an alpha version of AS 3.0 as well, there is chance something might be changing in the long run, but you won't suffer much because of that...

As for your V2 files loading into V3 file question, that's something you'll need to experiment and let us know... ;)

jsebrech
10-25-2005, 06:40 AM
Where Will We Be Able To Use V3? Will We Have To Buy Flash 9, Or Flex2, Or Will Be Able To Use V3 With Flash 8 (perhaps With Some Download Plugin)? When And Where Will That Be Possible?

AS3 in flash would be available only in a new version of flash, probably flash 9.

hangalot
11-30-2005, 02:48 PM
your need for as3 depends on what kind of work you do. we are already talking about adopting it (i do R&D work currently for a large financial company) because of the runtime error checking and the like

senocular
11-30-2005, 03:54 PM
For Flash, Flash 9 will be the first to use AS 3. That should pop up some time this spring with a public alpha/beta.

AS 1/2 will still exist and will probably be in existence for a long time as non-coders will find it much more inviting. AS 3 will probably find its place with the application developers but may not be worth the effort when dealing with casual programming. In fact, now for commercial work, I rarely even use AS 2. Games are probably the only exception.

Will there be a time when AS 1/2 is gone? Maybe. But it won't happen anytime soon. I know Im not excited about the day I HAVE to use

flash.net.navigateToURL(new flash.net.URLRequest(myURL));

over

getURL(myURL);

CyanBlue
11-30-2005, 05:42 PM
Well... I will probably be using AS1 even in F9 or F10... I like AS1 whole lot better for me to understand and I have an alergy to the classes... :D

Check this page out...
http://livedocs.macromedia.com/labs/1/flex/langref/migration.html

There are good amount of F4 syntaxes and other old syntaxes removed in AS3 like...
call()
eval()
getProperty()
setProperty()
tellTarget()
_quality
_target
_url
getURL()
TextField.variable
...
...

sfhazel
11-30-2005, 05:58 PM
i'll have to say to me it looks like AS is turning into a more logical language

BOO! Flash is supposed to bend your mind and break your face. Boo to making things more logical. Who thinks logically when programming! AHHHHhhhhhhhh *exploads*

Scottae
11-30-2005, 06:10 PM
So although you might be on Flash 8, you'll still have to publish for Flash 6 or even lower, for yet some time ahead...

I don't see why. The player penetration (http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html) for version 7 has been high for quite a while. I guess it depends on what you consider a high penetration. I think 90% and up is good. It's an A. I guess I just can't see why people are unable to get the latest version of the player after years have passed since the previous version of the player came out.

CyanBlue
11-30-2005, 06:13 PM
Don't forget to remember that that penetration table is quite relative depending on your potential audience...
For example, my main audience is the students at elementary/middle/high school and the school labs does not have the newest Flash Player installed and they normally upgrade it once or twice a year... So, there is a chance when I am forced to program for FP6... Know what I mean??? :(

senocular
11-30-2005, 06:19 PM
Also dont forget that what you think is irrelavant, its what the client thinks. And sometimes, the client can't be persuaded to think otherwise.

Scottae
11-30-2005, 06:19 PM
Yeah, that sucks.

Antares
12-05-2005, 09:36 AM
Anyway when people will realize that in AS3 it's possible to work with mail servers without server-side scripts, store applications UI state, use Back / Forward browser buttons by default and so on, it's gonna turn into a new wave of quality Flash works. Maybe not really many, but it's gonna be a new level.

Things like that always affect users and customers. To my mind AS3 will spread much faster that we think now.

senocular
12-05-2005, 09:42 AM
I dont think that means anything. AS3 doesn't really offer anything that can't be done now in some form or another. Its just a more programmer-savvy language with a few extra bells and whistles that, in some ways, makes development a little easier (and other ways not). Its not a breakthrough, just something different.

madgett
12-05-2005, 12:13 PM
AS 3.0 will change structured development for Flash. And it will be a major change, because you won't be able to use it properly without knowing the new mandatory syntax you need to have in your app, and which methods are depreciated. And porting previous applications to the new syntax will require most of them to be rewritten.

FormerSwinger
12-05-2005, 12:33 PM
From the looks of it, I will curse the day when I have to use Action Script 3. ...

...
You coders may find this stimulating. I find it a frigging pain in the tuchas.


Yes ac2 is english based and easy to learn however "I find it a frigging pain in the tuchas" if I need to use it in a way the developers in MM weren't planning on. Ac 2 is allmost like coding yet the unlogical structure and "left overs" from previous versions make it next to impossible to make logical programs with it.

If Flash wouldn't be so powerfull with graphics I'd still be using Java

senocular
12-05-2005, 12:39 PM
If Flash wouldn't be so powerfull with graphics I'd still be using Java

Thats an important comparison. Flash is becoming more and more like Java given its direction and focus as an application development tool. However, the advantages of Flash are in its IDE and ease of use (well, that and its light, widespread plugin). Where AS 3 is going is away from that ease and heading more towards a developer-centric programming environment which is more favorable for those who are already developing in Java. Java is a lot faster and capable compared to Flash. As I see if Flash should stick to being "easy" and maintain its focus on ease of use.

Remember all the hubbub around MM dropping Normal mode from the IDE? The Flash community was up in arms because it made programming easy. They event went so far as to bring it back in Flash 8 (as script assist). That if anything should show the importance of having a simple, easy to understand programming language that is easy to use even for the non-programmer. flash.net.navigateToURL(new flash.net.URLRequest(myURL)); and other AS3 approaches to simple actions are not a reflection of that. As far as I see it, AS 1/2 will (or should) always be around.

FormerSwinger
12-05-2005, 12:46 PM
You make a good point senocular.
I also think that as1/2 will be around for a long time.
For those of who like to code the AC3 is welcomed addition.

micheeeel
12-05-2005, 10:06 PM
Well... I will probably be using AS1 even in F9 or F10... I like AS1 whole lot better for me to understand.......

There are good amount of F4 syntaxes and other old syntaxes removed in AS3 like...
tellTarget()
_target
_url
getURL()

Well, I totally disagree with you on that. At least for me, everything I do I try to make using AS2 as I think its faaar faaar faaaaar more easy to understand the code, expecially when programming games as senocular said. You can do your own classes with methods and attributes in a way that is less complex to understand 'cause its more or like people organize themself inside their heads. In a *nerd* way to think, you have classes to cook this, classes to drive, classes to write... so it gets more logical and less...computacional? Well, at least for me, I dont have to use that prototype crap that I can barely understand :eek: I used the script assistant years ago, but when AS2 came I still thank to God for lettin me use "_parent", "_root" and other groceries that came instead of that crazy shiet that tellTarget was.

But i guess its good the have AS1 and AS2 as people think and act each on their own... as you and me dont share the same opinion :) This is good ;)

Will there be a time when AS 1/2 is gone? Maybe. But it won't happen anytime soon. I know Im not excited about the day I HAVE to use

flash.net.navigateToURL(new flash.net.URLRequest(myURL));

over

getURL(myURL);

I WONDER if we'll have to use this syntax with Flash 9 to use AS3 or its just for Flex2 and that developer like interface... I mean, I do websites and ocasinally games, having to write all that code just to open an URL is a pain in the ass...*really*.

I like the clean interface and easy of use with Flash to program and do my stuff. Having to import classes to use buttons, another for graphics and another for forms like Java makes it hard to migrate and learn. One of the things that keep me away from FLEX 2 is not beeing able to have a timeline of events like we have on Flash. It's very hard "imagine" your animations, and change them if the client doesn't approve it, thats why I keep away from the developer-like interface of Flex. Well, at least I dind't find any timeline in there by the time I tested and I doubt it'll ever have. Its MUCH more friendly to have and BE ABLE to see how's your animation going to be... fells more or like Adobe Premiere for video, and cartoons animation programs, wich I like.

I dont think that means anything. AS3 doesn't really offer anything that can't be done now in some form or another. Its just a more programmer-savvy language with a few extra bells and whistles that, in some ways, makes development a little easier (and other ways not). Its not a breakthrough, just something different.

Doenst AS3 offer speed improvements? I mean at execution time, array sorting/acess, string parsing and similar stuff? I've seen some benchmarks comparing AS2 with AS3 on various players... when I see speed improvements I cheer 'cause it open more doors to game developers to build better and more robust AI for games, for example... Am I wrong Senocular?

Note: Good thread :)
Note2: English is not my "mother language", so I'm sorry for any grammar errors that I may and possibly have done (commited?).

senocular
12-05-2005, 10:12 PM
Ok yes, speed (and regexp) but I consider that more of a player thing, not the language itself (not counting regexp, thats a biggie).

CyanBlue
12-06-2005, 12:24 AM
micheeeel... I never said something that you will not disagree... I was just saying what I have felt... and the only person who can actually disagree with what I feel is my wife not you... :D

Other than that specific section, I like what you have expressed there... ;)

jsebrech
12-06-2005, 07:09 AM
I think that AS3 will increase flash's marketshare instead of decrease it, as long as AS1/2 are still in there, and they don't make it too difficult to write little bits of code here and there in your timeline. As long as it is additive, AS3 will lure a lot of people in.

I know for us a large part of deciding on flash over java was the ubiquity of the player. Even in large corporate environments player version 7 is already available by the time we arrive, so we can ship without requiring company wide rollouts of client-side plugins (like we would have to have done in many cases with java). That is a HUGE benefit. If you add a language to that which facilitates developing apps like you would in java, the balance tips in flash's favor even more.

Headshotz
12-06-2005, 09:43 AM
I think AS3 will make me forget AS2, AS1, php, C++ and JS for some reason.

Dylan Marvin
12-09-2005, 06:26 AM
I think AS3 will make me forget AS2, AS1, php, C++ and JS for some reason.

:)I think AS3 will make me forget Flash:)

devil_online
12-10-2005, 08:46 PM
forget php??
AS 3.0 can conect to MySQL databases?


Thanks

Headshotz
12-11-2005, 02:54 AM
I dont know, I just mean Im holding so many things in my head, cramming AS3 in there will make other stuff fall out.

jsebrech
12-12-2005, 06:43 AM
Headshotz, as if you really need to know ten different methods of tying knots.

Let it all go son.

Headshotz
12-12-2005, 07:28 AM
No not the knots :eek: please take Javascript instead...

:p

cxn926
12-13-2005, 12:20 AM
AS3 in flash would be available only in a new version of flash, probably flash 9.
Yea. Which I can't wait for becuase I heard it would be so much liek photoshop too. :)

Headshotz
12-13-2005, 06:09 AM
If its even called flash, they might rename it and start from 1.

Oh my god, then when we are extremely old we can say to our great great grandchildren:

"You know kiddies, I started on Flash, which was before Adobe bought Macromedia, before Apple bought adobe, before Microsoft bought apple and before Fisher Price Toys bought microsoft"

;)

Dave At ADC
12-14-2005, 04:23 PM
So, looking at the migration links it looks like AS3 will be using a system similar to Visual Studio .NET... or is the This.This.This just a way of representation? In VS.NET, you can type This. then a window will open up with all the possible functions, methods, classes, etc that can be used from that point... WONDERFUL for new developers. Any info on that?

hangalot
12-14-2005, 04:26 PM
you mean "this." depending on which actionscript editor you use you should already be able to dio that. i personally use eclipse + fdt, which is great. for mxml i use oxygen, but what the MM flex 2 editor gives you is a tioe in from the mxml to the AS which i don't currently have.

senocular
12-14-2005, 08:21 PM
I cant use eclipse until they implement drag+copy. Its a doorstop without it.

AniComUS
12-14-2005, 08:28 PM
Any way to use Browser Back and Forward buttons with Flash through AS2?

jsebrech
12-15-2005, 06:50 AM
Any way to use Browser Back and Forward buttons with Flash through AS2?

You could always call them via getURL and the javascript history object (http://www.comptechdoc.org/independent/web/cgi/javamanual/javahistory.html).

That only allows going back and forward though. If you mean to add new entries to the history ... well, good luck.

Headshotz
12-16-2005, 01:07 AM
Hope they implement the

MakeItWorkGood();

command ;)

senocular
12-16-2005, 01:27 AM
Hope they implement the

MakeItWorkGood();

command ;)

I believe that will be in the

flash.project.making.skills.goodorbadorsomethingel se

package

Headshotz
12-16-2005, 01:31 AM
Oh goody, Ive been needing that one for a while now :p

AniComUS
12-24-2005, 02:59 AM
How would you write the getURL() command, given the length and complexity of the JavaScript expression?

<FORM>
<INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE="Go Back" onClick="history.back()">
</FORM>


OR


<FORM>
<INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE="Go Forward" onClick="history.forward()">
</FORM>

edacsac
01-13-2006, 12:18 PM
Didn't we just get flash 8 and now we're already talking about flash 9?

hangalot
01-13-2006, 12:44 PM
actionscript 3 was originally scheduled to be in flash 8, but they did not want to ship a dodgy language (they learned with mx2004) so they immediatly starting working on the flash 9

Headshotz
01-14-2006, 10:49 PM
Good idea, Flash 8 is enough for me without AS3

bombsledder
01-14-2006, 11:05 PM
flash 9 is gonna completly change the way flash interface is used i honestly cant wate =(

Headshotz
01-15-2006, 04:53 AM
I hope it takes a long time, not to tease you of course, but not many people are upgrading to Flash 8 player. And if flash 9 comes out before most people upgrade that is going to make me sad.

BenBenKing
01-16-2006, 04:50 AM
Comes newly !

Pays attention!

很高兴认识大家!

bombsledder
01-17-2006, 07:15 PM
i guess... i understand what your saying but flash 9 is gonna be sweet :D people might actually be able to make nice looking flash games now, i would have to see how the engine works hands on, i tried flex 2 didnt like it so i'll wate for the flash 9 trial i guess :(

hangalot
01-17-2006, 07:17 PM
you don't need to use flex in the new IDE, create a normal actionscript project and get cracking. use embed tag to import your assests and you are well on your way

Incrue
01-22-2006, 09:54 PM
Will there be a time when AS 1/2 is gone? Maybe. But it won't happen anytime soon. I know Im not excited about the day I HAVE to use

flash.net.navigateToURL(new flash.net.URLRequest(myURL));

over

getURL(myURL);.
Thats why i plan to use functions like this:
function asGetUrl(myURL){
flash.net.navigateToURL(new flash.net.URLRequest(myURL));
}

so i just go:
asGetUrl(myURL);
rather tham
flash.net.navigateToURL(new flash.net.URLRequest(myURL));
And similar stuff to _x, _y and so on
So, i dont have to spend the rest of my life typing those things
If i have just 90% of the new speed, the cost/benefit relationship still is better them using 'normal' as3
What do you think about this idea?

bombsledder
01-23-2006, 11:22 PM
of course we would use functions ;)

LeeroyJenkins
02-04-2006, 10:15 AM
will we be able to use as3 in the flash9 ide? boy i am getting pretty sick of making graphics.lineTo methods =)

also, has anyone gotten the DragManager to work? Once i got rid of the flex alpha and got the beta, eclipse no longer recognizes mx.managers.DragManager ....

hangalot
02-04-2006, 02:02 PM
yes, it will be in the ide. instead of doing line to's why don't you create your graphics in flash8 and embed them, the interop is supposed to be seamless between the two virtual machines (although i have heard this is not the case yet)

i haven't tried the dragmanager yet, its on a task that i have for next week so...

Tink
02-04-2006, 02:02 PM
also, has anyone gotten the DragManager to work? Once i got rid of the flex alpha and got the beta, eclipse no longer recognizes mx.managers.DragManager ....i believe that everything withing the mx name space is reserved for Flex projects. Seems mx.effects.Tween has now been changed as well in beta.

And you can use graphics from your current Flash 8 movies in AS 3.0 projects by embeding the swf.

devil_online
02-04-2006, 03:38 PM
I think (at least my bigger problem) it's to conect action script to databases.

I hope that they resolved this issue in AS3..however I think it's dificult to do this :(

hangalot
02-04-2006, 03:40 PM
actionscript is a client side language, you will still need server side code to connect to a db over the web. in theory on a local machine it is possible, and i am certain some people are working on stuff like that

LeeroyJenkins
02-04-2006, 09:37 PM
yeah i was just figuring that out -- having those default flex objects would be really nice -- seems like most if not all those objects, especially the effect ones, would be really useful in as3. thanks for the info about as2 projects and graphics, i may have to do that. Anyone also notice that you can no longer do:

[Embed(source="")]
private var PNG:Class

but actually have to make a new class file for it?

abeall
02-20-2006, 06:05 PM
*Long time contributer & user of AS.org, first time forum poster. Was googling for AS3.0 information and found this thread.

It's good to see someone as gifted of a developer as senocular express my concern with AS3.0. I am not such a talented developer, and have no future in advanced software/application development, so I can't help but wonder if a developer could understand or sympathize with my concerns(so far all conversations with developers in the workplace have not met much understanding), but senocular seems to be able to see both sides of the coin.

Flash was made for designers. For the better, it has spread to developers. The result is that Flash now is a very unique platform, in that it has a strong following of *both* designers and developers, with quite a bit of overlap in what they do. I can't think of a single other platform that this is true of. It's allowed people like me, who are designers by trade, to do basic level development: Build very dynamic presentations/websites/even simple applications with advanced interactive qualities, widespread compatability, and high reliability and stability. Previously, the people complaining have been the developers. While I have seen first hand that they are just as capable at creating incredible things as they are on other platforms, you've moaned and whined about how stupid/silly/primitive AS is. Due to this complaining, I was astonished when I - as a humble designer - started to learn AS1.0 and found it remarkably intuitive, simple, and understandable. I was able to learn fast and do things I could not have done had there been a barrier to the development side. To this day, I am considered an expert Flash developer, I get contracts on jobs that are Flash development oriented... and I'm still a designer. I will never be a developer. Flash is a tool, that as a designer, has been an incredible designer friendly developing tool.

AS3.0 will change this. It is creating too large a barrier to the development side that I, and many designers, will not be able to cross. Developers will be more comfortable there, but designers will be left out. I don't mean to sound unwilling to try, that's not the case. I've tried. I've tried to learn PHP, ASP, JavaScript, AS3.0 alpha, and never met a fraction of the success I did with ActionScript. Why? What I don't think you 'real' developers understand, or rather I'm sure you know but perhaps aren't applying to this situation, is that there are two ways of thinking. That's why there are designers and developers, and rarely both at one time. Designers think physically, spatially, everything is visual, everything can be touched with your hands in a sense. The other way is abstract, logical, technical, handling lot's of floating details all over the place. Maybe very organized, but things are strung together in an abstract way, not a physical way.

When I paint, I have a brush in my hand. I choose my paint, and determine my technique, and I apply. If I want a red hat on my monkey, I paint on the monkey.

canvas.monkey.attach("hat");
canvas.monkey.hat.color = 'red';

I don't have to think beyond that. I pick up my brush without thinking about it, because it's always there(single level global namespace?), i just have to decide what brush and grab it. The rest is painting with my hands. I don't have to go into a different room, get a new piece of paper, get seperate brushes and paints from a closet, draw my hat on the new paper, keep a record of what brushes I used, what colors I used, what kind of brushes/paints they are, write out a paper on my intentions for this red hat, rip the paper out, go back into my other room, transpose the hat on my monkey somehow, and who knows what else.

That is how I feel when I try and use AS3.0, or even 2.0 to some extent in Flash 8. It's also how I feel when I am forced to write code severely detached from the visual environment it will be used in(ex. PHP). That may appeal to some people, to have that level of 'organization' I guess, but a designer just wants to - and rather their mind thinks in this way, and therefore they operate best when they - just do it. With their hands.

I'm rambling and I know there's an unwritten law to not post more than a few sentences on an online forum(and expect it to get read!), so my summary is this:

ActionScript 1.0 and to some extent 2.0 accomodated designers. ActionScript 3.0 does not. It may seem like only a more organized version of AS to you developers, but to us designers it is just more untouchable. It cannot be grasped so easily. It's distant.

All that said, I really can't claim what the "right" future is for Flash... if Flash's future is brightest in advanced application development where designers have little access, then AS3.0 is also the "right" next step. (And also I understand that realistically what is most profitable for Macromedia now Adobe will really be what 'defines' right). And since I am not and never will be an advanced application developer, I can't claim to know what would make AS best for that end. If, however, the designers place is not to be forgotten in being able to make things in Flash, it seems AS3.0 is not helping this. Not that I think AS3.0 is 'wrong', it will come, no doubt about it, complaining doesn't help.

It almost seems there needs to be two versions of Flash from here out. One which designers can use, one which developers can use. Perhaps Flash IDE vs. Flex will be this. The only problem is, as explained above, ActionScript has historically fallen somewhere in between: a designer might be able to use some simple code to support their visual presentation or make a simple application(dynamic gallery, ect.), or a developer might make a full blown advanced application out of it. AS3.0 will change this, it favors advanced application development and not simple scripts. So it further almost seems there needs to be two levels of scripting in Flash. And in a sense there is: Virtual Machine 1 and Virtual Machine 2. But the issue is that VM1 is being phased out(although it's only the beginning, and will be around for awhile). But perhaps it will be phased out much more slowly than developers think... because it won't be quickly embraced by designers, IMHO ever.

(my summary is longer than the body!)
disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about. :) I'm not ranting on how I think Flash should be, only how I am experiencing it to be and how I have experienced it to be, for what it's worth, if anything at all. As a consumer I am only here for the ride, and will ride as best I can. The above thoughts are not well formulated so shouldn't be taken as a definitive opinion just yet, I am open to being enlightened!

-abeall

hangalot
02-20-2006, 06:44 PM
AS3 will be in the next ide, which will make it possible for you to still do what you do. there was a need due to large teams to abstract stuff out of the fla and mxml is this.
the next version of the ide will be released (in beta format) when flex2 goes on sale.
i think people who are saying yeah as2 is going to stay popular are a bit naive, when you build something you want the best possible performance and as3 can give this to you while as2 cannot.

abeall
02-20-2006, 11:49 PM
> AS3 will be in the next ide
Yes, but I am referring to the AS3.0 architecture and design paradigm(I don't know my code terms but I hopefully you get what I mean), not just the preference of developers to develop AS externally from Flash. But see? You must be a really smart, logical, developer, you didn't understand what I was rambling about endlessly - my poor ability to explain logically I'm sure attributes as well. :)

> i think people who are saying yeah as2 is going to stay popular are a bit naive,
> when you build something you want the best possible performance and as3 can
> give this to you while as2 cannot.
You're absolutely right, AS2.0 won't be the latest, so nobody is going to really want to use it, especially developers. It's not like AVM1 is still in develoment, that would be different, so of course it will perish relatively quickly. But my point is that designers are going to be met with two options: AS1.0/2.0, and AS3.0. I think people who say designers are going to quickly or at all choose AS3.0 are in the same way naive. JMHO

On the other hand, I'm not saying because of that AS3.0 is not going to catch on fast... it's catching on now! But half the Flash user base is not going follow, I think. And as long as AS1.0/2.0 is a viable alternative, naturally it will stick around for them. Hopefully that made a little more sense.

cheers

hangalot
02-20-2006, 11:57 PM
i saw an ide which had as3 in it (flash 8 before that got pulled) and i think you are overreacting. designers learning flash in 6 months time will not find as3 that difficult due to the fact that a lot of the stuff they do will be made easily availible to them through such things as behaviours and on-handelers. the timeline is still there, believe me it won't be that different for you.
i think you are nervous becauause you look at eclipse, mxml and complete class based development and you have no idea since you never learned these things.

so really relax, there is nothing to worry about. macromedia/adobe knows who there users are and they will not leave you out in the cold

abeall
02-21-2006, 12:25 AM
> i think you are overreacting
I hope you're right :)
I know the Flash timeline will be the same(and better, more than likely), and the IDE will be just more of the same. I'm talking about AS3.0 itself....

>i think you are nervous becauause you look at eclipse, mxml and complete
> class based development and you have no idea since you never learned
> these things.
Yes and no... I'm nervous because I've tried to use AS3.0 in the same way I used AS1.0/2.0, and it doesn't work anymore. I'm not talking about syntax changes, but behavior 'how-to-make-it-work' changes. I have to import classes, use long and tiresome namespaces, create abstract objects just to deal with other objects, worry about all sorts of things I didn't have to worry about before.

> due to the fact that a lot of the stuff they do will be made easily availible
> to them through such things as behaviours and on-handelers
Out of curiousity, could you elaborate on that? Behaviors and on handlers meaning AS3.0 methods or something in the IDE?

Tink
02-21-2006, 12:58 AM
I'm talking about AS3.0 itself....You won't have to use AS 3.0. It's your choice. You can learn it, use it and get the benefits, or you can stick with AS 1.0 or 2.0 and continue making some of the fantastic stuff we see at the moment. ActionScript is growing with the Flash Platform, and its growing fast, which is a good thing for use all. AS 3.0 is has so many more possiblities that its predessors and therefore it is has to be more involved. It's also a much nicer language to code in, if you code alot. It's just has a more robust feel.

Flash 8 concentrated on designers and expresiveness and lots of developers felt let down. This release moves back to developers. The big push being to get the hardcore coders using Flash who have always avaioded it and looked down on it.

AS 3.0 rocks!

hangalot
02-21-2006, 01:29 AM
the ide will have the same type of on-handlers (on release etc) that you are used to, also i expect to see something akin to behaviours (mx 2004) in there.

as tink says it will be your choice, however using as2 in a flash 8.5 and higher movie will give you none of the benefits.

i think you will find that over time you will be learning a lot of as3 and suddenly you will find yourself in a simmiliar position to where you are now.

Headshotz
02-21-2006, 07:49 AM
flash.project.making.skills.goodorbadorsomethingel se


Hmm


import flash.senoculars.skills.*


Aha!

Incrue
02-26-2006, 10:41 PM
I believe that will be in the

flash.project.making.skills.goodorbadorsomethingel se

package
Sen, you are not my personal flash god anymore.
Nobody needs to type this big name, just import the stuff first and type just the end name
The only case someone needs to use the big name is if there are two big names with the same end
And you knew that!!!!!!!!!
http://www.kirupa.com/developer/oop2/AS2OOPClassFileManage4.htm
And now im hungry to use AS3!!!!!!!

Headshotz
02-26-2006, 11:56 PM
import flash.everyoneOnActionscriptOrgs.skills.*


Even better ;)

madgett
02-27-2006, 02:29 AM
The next best thing is always a necessity.

The worst thing you can do with AS3 is not learn it, b/c at some point you will have to and if not then you most likely will be making it easier for other people to take your job...:p.

hangalot
02-27-2006, 02:40 AM
i went through a few of these post again now.
people say don't bother with it yet:
i disagree, i am already building a prototype for a large financial institution in it. with the built in updater facility the player adoption will be quick. (compare the player adoption rates for player 8 to any previous version).

people say its shockingly different:
yes it is. as3 is class based inheritance not prototyped anymore, it adheres tightly to the ecma spec, it is jit'd causing a major performance increase. it opens low level API's which we have never had before.

at the end of the day you can only be a better developer using it.
anough of my jabbering about it. i am back to coding in it ;)

subHero
03-24-2006, 10:19 PM
as3 is class based inheritance not prototyped anymore, it adheres tightly to the ecma spec,
...which states:

ECMAScript does not contain proper classes such as those in C++, Smalltalk, or Java, but rather, supports constructors which create objects by executing code that allocates storage for the objects and initialises all or part of them by assigning initial values to their properties. All constructors are objects, but not all objects are constructors. Each constructor has a Prototype property that is used to implement prototype-based inheritance and shared properties.
so: AS3 is not a class based language but a prototype implementation. it is class based only on a syntactical level.
that is why you don't get native support for things like abstract classes/methods, signature overloading, etc.
but i guess those nifty mm/adobe guys will hook that also up so that it will at least feel like java ;)
and true: flash as fanatics should get familiar with it right away :)

cheers
-sh

hangalot
03-24-2006, 10:24 PM
son the prototype was built in as a hack for that sentence.
from an adobe engineer:

Gordon Smith
<[email protected]> to flexcoders
Hide options Feb 10
From: Gordon Smith <[email protected]> Mailed-By: returns.groups.yahoo.com
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: flexcoders@yahoo[email protected]
Date: Feb 10, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: [flexcoders] AS3 class constructors can't be private? Abstract classes?

Prototype-based inheritance is supported but it isn't as fast or small as the new kind of class-based inheritance. We're not using prototype-based inheritance in the Flex framework for this reason.

- Gordon


so lets not get into this argument again as i have fought it over several boards and mailing lists, whilst reading the langiage spec itself will tell you all you need to know.
good night, argument over.

subHero
03-24-2006, 10:33 PM
son the prototype was built in as a hack for that sentence.
from an adobe engineer:

so i shot myself in the foot, stand corrected and will put ashes over my head for the time being on this planet :D

hangalot
03-24-2006, 10:36 PM
;)
no need for such drastic action.

dsdsdsdsd
05-08-2008, 02:47 PM
billingsgate, For those of us from non-coding backgrounds ... is an issue that almost everyone on this forum overlooks, and I believe to the detriment of the Flash community;

I have learned about 9 languages over the last 7 years, I have been OOP'ing since early 2004, and nothing comes close to the difficulty that I am having with AS3, other than maybe LightWave's LScript which took me 3 days to get under control; However I have about 2 weeks with AS3, along with 2 books ( $40/each ), and I am struggling to feel confident that I have it under control;

I cannot believe that a non-programmer will have an opportunity to continue to work with AS in light of this;

I found AS1 to be very extendable, using good architecture strategies;



thanks
dsdsdsdsd

dr_zeus
05-08-2008, 08:16 PM
I have learned about 9 languages over the last 7 years, I have been OOP'ing since early 2004, and nothing comes close to the difficulty that I am having with AS3

What languages have you used? ActionScript 3 is very similar to Java, C#, and pretty much any C/C++ derived language out there. If you have 9 languages under your belt, AS3 should be a piece of cake.

I found AS1 to be very extendable, using good architecture strategies;

I wonder if the problem is that you're coming to AS3 with a mindset of working with AS1. Though AS3 is backwards compatible with a majority of the core AS1 syntax (some requires turning strict mode off, though), there are still significant differences between the two. It might be better to look at AS3 with a fresh canvas. Forget that they're both called "ActionScript" and pretend you're learning a new language that you've never seen before.

Note: This advice isn't for everyone, but if you're thoroughly and completely confused by AS3, and you feel like you can't get anything to work like you could in AS1/2, it might be a good strategy.

lordofduct
05-08-2008, 09:41 PM
talk about reviving the dead... you do know that billingsgate posted that back in 2005 right?

dsdsdsdsd
05-08-2008, 09:54 PM
Zeus,

actually just earlier today I concluded that this language should not be called ActionScript3, but maybe something like FlashJava or FlashC;

IDL, AutoLISP ( AutoCAD variant of LISP ), LScript ( Lightwave variant of ?? ),
PHP, JS, LINGO, Rhino's VB-based scripting language, AS, SSAS for the Communication Server ( which is really just AS );

of course what these all have in common is that they have a natural tendency towards procedural entry, whereas AS3 ( or can I say FlashC 1.0 ) doesn't seem to; however they also can handle class-based development as well;




gotta go ... reading "Learning ActionScript 3.0, A Beginner's Guide" by Rick Shupe and Zeven Rosser, which arrived in the mail Tuesday;


dsdsdsdsd

dsdsdsdsd
05-08-2008, 09:56 PM
yeah I saw that, but I had to jump in;

dr_zeus
05-09-2008, 05:11 PM
gotta go ... reading "Learning ActionScript 3.0, A Beginner's Guide" by Rick Shupe and Zeven Rosser, which arrived in the mail Tuesday;

That's a very good one. Hopefully it'll help! :)