A simple question - More of a request than question, though.

[Beowulfe]

This might seem like an unusual request, but this is not a joke.
I have never been to a Flash forum before so i have no idea of how this works.

Right now I am creating a game, since it's 2D it has very limited graphics and animations. Now, I would like a person here to help me devolpe a few short
(1 - 5 min) flash movieS for my game.

I tried to do it myself but I always suck when it comes to flash and PC drawing.

The only thing I have to offer in return is that he/she will be credited in my game for helping me out.


So, anybody?

[billingsgate]

My downstairs toilet has a leak. I suck at fixing pipes. Is anyone here a plumber? I won't pay you. But I'll write your name on the inside of the toilet tank as credit.

I wouldn't dare post the above request on a plumber's discussion forum. But I am often amazed at the requests I find at Flash and animation forums.

[Beowulfe]

If you're painting jars for charity, it wouldn't hurt to ask somebody to get you a few extra paint brushes. Especially if they are small, cheap, paint brushes.

Well, I wouldn't say that flash is a toilet on a flash discussion forum.

I have a small team helping me on my game. Would it be fair if I give another member something I won't give the others, or is it fair if I give a member that helped me something that I'll give the rest that are helping me?

It was just a request that isn't harming anybody. If you don't want to apply, don't post at all. Stop spamming my thread...

[thebob]

You sir are not a charity and so the analogy doesn't fit.

Good Luck finding someone prepared to help:)

[Beowulfe]

The charity was meant to be people who like the type of the game I'm making.

Thanks, thebob.

[hangalot]

what does your game look like?

[Beowulfe]

Here are two screenshots:

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/298/screen015cc.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/423/screen030uq.png (http://imageshack.us)

Very brief summary of the game:
It's centered on you playing the history of the most evil creature that ever existed. A vampire, one of the last of his kind.

A brief summary of the gameplay:
Walk through the storyline and kill anything in your path, really, anything. Action/Horror game.

The game is meant to be very bloody and dark, but I can't do that with the program I'm using for the game alone. I need somebody to help me create some "cut-scenes" for my game, and each one would be very brief and short, no human sound required. I'll provide the audio. I don't think I'm asking for much... Am I?

[hangalot]

have you coonsidered using video? doing video propely is not easy, but you could have a lot of fun doing it

[Beowulfe]

I can't. Where will I get 10 - 12 people to do the video with me? Also the costumes, weapons, etc... Flash is really the best alternative for me now.

[oldnewbie]

It's centered on you playing the history of the most evil creature that ever existed...

Thought you were going to add... And his name is Thebob! :D

[billingsgate]

The charity was meant to be people who like the type of the game I'm making.

Thanks, thebob.

Let me get this straight... You want someone to make several 5-minute movies in Flash. We're talking about a week's full-time work for a 3-minute movie, and that's for someone who is both competent and extremely fast. So an experienced animator (because you want someone who doesn't suck at it) is supposed to take several weeks out of his or her schedule to produce it. Then give it to you for nothing. And THAT PERSON is the charity???? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Had you come to this forum seeking a creative partner, who would share some of the equity, that would have been a different matter. Otherwise I think it's quite offensive to ask for freebies and then call it charity to work for you.

[Beowulfe]

I never said anything about several. The movies will be usually 1 min. Again, I never said anything about fast. What I ask for wouldn't take half a day. You tell me, what should I offer somebody that will make me a short and easy animation? Like I said; I have a team on this, I'm NOT going to give somebody else something i wouldn't give to another member.

And THAT PERSON is the charity????
call it charity to work for you.

Jesus Christ, it was just a medaphore. Get that through your head.

Again I'm telling you, if you don't want to apply then don't post.

[billingsgate]

The critical replies you have received are of a serious nature and on an issue that deserves attention. You are the one being extraordinarily rude, considering you came here asking for freebie work.

[Cota]

Gentlemen, I will kindly ask that you guys relax. Sooner or later one of the mods will come through, and you know how those guys get down...

[Beowulfe]

You are the one being extraordinarily rude

What did I say that offended you? I was being rather nice replying to the way you were attacking me.

[oldnewbie]

It's centered on you playing the history of the most evil creature that ever existed...

Thought you were going to add... And his name is Thebob! Or maybe it should now be Billingsgate! :D

[billingsgate]

Okay, let me apologize if I have caused any offense, and also explain myself.

I participate in a number of forums for cartoonists, animators and, more recently, Flash designers and developers. These forums are all great places for like-minded individuals, from beginners to masters, from students and enthusiastic amateurs to seasoned professionals, to share professional, technical and market tips and tricks, teach one another, whine and moan together, seek creative and venture partners and in general alleviate the feeling of isolation that many of us freelancers can sometimes feel.

About once every six weeks or so on any of these forums, along comes someone who just registered that morning and their first post goes something like this:

"Hey, you guys are animators, right? I got this great concept - a family of talking alligators! If someone wants to write the scripts, design the characters, animate, score and render everything all ready to deliver to a TV network, then I'm happy to put your name in the credits."

If they're more generous, they might ask someone to do all the above and then offer to share the proceeds: 75% to the guy with the "concept", the rest to the poor morons who do the work.

After all, a cartoon drawing takes you, what? 10 seconds to draw? Why would you expect money for something like that?

After a while, the regulars in the animation and cartooning forums get sick of these. The plumber analogy I used isn't original, it has become a more or less standard response to such requests for free work.

These Flash forums don't get so many freebie requests. More often it's something like "I have an idea for a game kind of like Halo, done in Flash. Can someone teach me the script for it?" If you've been in this forum for more than a month, you'll have seen at least one of these. The response is usually: Go buy a book about Action Script and come back when you have specific questions. And I've never seen the person respond with nonsense like "If you won't help me write the script, then don't post!"

Beowulfe here didn't come across as quite the naive newcomer, since he is after all a developer with a project in the works. And yet I find it absurd that he would ask for someone's hard work for free without offering anything in return. He may have a "team" who is working unpaid, but so what? If there is a skill you can't find elsewhere, you ought to be prepared to pay. If you didn't have enough computers to complete the project you wouldn't expect the computer retailer to give you a free one, on the grounds that your "team" is unpaid, would you?

The original request was naive rather than offensive. His follow-up responses were both. To say that his offer of a credit is "charity" is simply silly. To then start using harsh language and covering up by saying it was a (misspelled) "medaphore" (it's metaphore, with a T), was rude.

I admit that my response was a bit testy after that, and I apologize. I've been in this line of work for 25 years and I could count in the hundreds how many requests I've had for freebie work in exchange for "credit" or "exposure"...and this was before the Internet. Come the Internet and these sorts of requests have multiplied exponentially. I guess my normally thick skin has worn down and I've gotten short-tempered. Sorry about that, really.

I believe that most of these requests come from a naive misunderstanding of the work that artists, illustrators, cartoonists and animators do.

Beowulfe, you should realize that your request comes across as just another naive request. Your subsequent comments bordered on abusive. Especially telling me to not post if I didn't want to "apply" to work for you. You need to realize how you come across with such an attitude. Sure, I could have ignored you as just another one of those freebie-seekers. But I think you need to hear responses like mine. Might help you to understand the mindset and sensitivities of artists and animators...or professionals in ANY field. Browse some animation forums and you'll see that I'm not alone in this kind of response (but please don't go to animation forums and look for a "volunteer"; if you didn't like my response, you won't be able to handle the flames you'll get in the hardcore animation forums).

And yes, you should offer either to PAY MONEY, or a share in the ownership of your project on a partnership basis, if you want someone of professional calibre to help you complete your project. Especially if you want quality design and animation. Regardless of whatever terms you have for the rest of the team. Otherwise you just sound like someone saying "gimme".

[oldnewbie]

Ummmmmmmmmmh! You must now feel fine, now that you got all of that off your chest! So you see, you did get something out of it! :D

[Cota]

First off, I will agree with you billingsgate...my only complaint was you were tormenting him like my son does to my daguhter...dont get me wrong, it was funny at first, but now this guy is going to start another thread asking for the same thing in a different way. I have no idea what my point was, but oh well....

[Beowulfe]

The original request was naive rather than offensive. His follow-up responses were both. To say that his offer of a credit is "charity" is simply silly. To then start using harsh language and covering up by saying it was a (misspelled) "medaphore" (it's metaphore, with a T), was rude.


I actually burst out laughing when I say those. Harsh language? I never said any harsh language.

Did I break you and you started looping? I said "painting jars for charity," it IS a meTaphore. You take the word charity serioulsy and leave the rest of the phrase? Did I keep mention you comparing flash to a toilet in almost every post I posted?

And yes, you should offer either to PAY MONEY, or a share in the ownership of your project on a partnership basis, if you want someone of professional calibre to help you complete your project. Especially if you want quality design and animation. Regardless of whatever terms you have for the rest of the team. Otherwise you just sound like someone saying "gimme".

When I'm done, it will be a freeware game. Why should I pay someone to do something so simple (for them)?

I accept your apology but I may have overdone it in some posts because you got under my skin.

now this guy is going to start another thread asking for the same thing in a different way.

Yes, i won't give up, but I won't post it in anyway that's different.

[Cota]

Yes, i won't give up, but I won't post it in anyway that's different.

Oh good, cant wait.

[Beowulfe]

No doubt...