confused

[pixelwit]

I don't get it.

I went to the chat area and saw the way things work. It looks like chat except I have to navigate with text. Where does the Flash come in? Is Flash only the topic of the chatroom? Will I be able to interact with the environment with Flash? What's the end goal? I hope I'm not sounding too naive, but my knowledge of Internet technologies (other than Flash) is quite limited.

I'd like to help but I get the feeling I'd be more of a hinderance than anything else. Maybe you'll need some useless Flash toys or really garish graphics, in which case I can be your "goto guy".

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[IFZen]

I have to say I'm a bit confused as pixelwit is. What are the different bricks of the project (between the text chat, the 20Tsqui engine & flash interface).
Please help us...

...and BZen

[vilehelm]

I'll jump in though i'm sure 20 and Red will have more to say.

The main idea is that there is a very robust engine already in place (the MUD) that we're trying to interface with through the flash based client. The chat is text based as "chat" pretty much has to be.

The main selling point of this for me is how much you can do within this engine. This is much more than a chatroom it's a little world. Things like this rely on lively intrested citizens to really make them live.

As far as it being flash based i think that we're still trying to figure out how to really exploit that angle. Most likely we'll get it done we'll use it and then we'll stock up on ideas for version 2 and so on.

I'll be posting some other jobs soon that need doing. Watch the forum space.

ps when i say "we" i mean all of us.

Ok 20 now that i'm through confusing everyone tell 'em what we're really doing...

[red penguin]

I'll jump in before the rodent...

Yes, it is really all about creating an environment...a place where you not only send text back and forth, but you are able to show emotions. Create yourself, describe things, look at objects, look at people, change how you look every day, change your "office" or "room", or whatever, run around other rooms, shout to anyone, have private conversations, play hide and seek, throw things, pick up things, find treasures, drink, swim, sunbathe, mop up after drunk penguins, drive your favorite truck, rollerskate, make lemonade, turn on the stereo and relax and...oh yeah...INTERACT WITH EVERYONE!...NOT JUST 'CHAT'!

The possibilities are endless but what we really need are all you people to jump on to get a FEEL for what this engine is NOW and where and how we want to intigrate it with Flash will then become obvious. Sure, now it'sd just using the damn keyboard and it's back and white text flying around, but Flash will make the interface much easier and faster and jazzier and cooler and...you get the picture...

The more people we have, the faster we can move...So JOIN UP TODAY! No one will be a hinderance, and this means YOU pixelwit!

One more thing...the engine IS AMAZING! THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS! IT'S GOING TO BE A WONDERFUL ENVIRONMENT...YOU HAVE TO EXPERIENCE IT FIRST HAND TO KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

Squirrel? Your turn...

[20 Ton Squirrel]

Hrmmm... okay, here goes.
The engine is, in actuality, a MUSH. This means that it is indeed a virtual environment that is text based. That can be pretty confusing to newcomers, I'll admit.

But ultimately, it's input like that which we need in order to make this project work. It's all well and good to think that the VR eats a big bowl of suck. But if you don't participate and let us know... well, we'll never know!

How does the engine relate to Flash? Hmmm... well, since the client to the engine will eventually be Flash itself that should answer the question succintly. For now we are using things like GMUD to connect to the engine just so we can get things established.

Just wait till ya see what Red and Vile cook up for this client. It's going to be really cool. The client will harness just about every function Flash has to offer. We're going to really push the envelope.

As for the engine ITSELF... that doesn't tie in much with Flash at all. It's capabilities to act as a host for incoming connections is an awesome thing to behold.

The engine is the destination, the Flash-based client is the vehicle in which to reach that destination.

[pixelwit]

So in less verbose terms, you primarily want Flash for it's availability? Then whatever Flash does comes second? Correct?

I'm not trying to be difficult "again". I'm trying to understand. Not everybody knows what you people know. I'm willling to help but you guys need to be willing to answer a few "stupid" questions.

If there's anything I can do to help, just point me in the right direction and tell me what to do.

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[vilehelm]

volunteer for the help section! :D

(points pixelwit in the direction of the help section thread) >>>

[vilehelm]

I think we want to use flash just to see if we can do it...y'know. It's been done before but i don't think it's been done this way before.

also we'd like to see how we can eventually add more multimedia type stuff to a chat environment.

gotta walk before we can run though.

[red penguin]

So in less verbose terms, you primarily want Flash for it's availability?
We want Flash because we (and by WE, I mean EVERYONE!)know how to exploit it! This is actionscripts.org afterall...It is the vehicle to make the WORLD we are creating via the ENGINE come alive for everyone. Flash is just the place where everything comes together. We input things into Flash (the CLIENT), it sends it to the engine which interprets that text and returns something back to the CLIENT. It, in turn, then interprets this info and is able to display it. Everyone who is using the CLIENT at any time sees the same stuff coming from the ENGINE. Thus our WORLD.

Does that help?

[20 Ton Squirrel]

And, to add to Peng's comments, there's no stupid questions and no one is getting exasperated yet. I totally understand that this is a foreign environment for many of you. Luckily it's not that hard to get used to... and once you do, it can be fun.

Reasons we are using flash for the client
Flash is more widely accepted, it's included on installations of Windows these days. It's compact, expansive, and powerful. It's web-based, so users wouldn't have to download GMUD, zMUD, MushClient, or their ilk just to connect. We can incorporate all sorts of nifty widgets and tools to make the environment fun and unique. In using Flash, we practice the skills that we all are trying to hone here at Actionscript.org.

Why are we using 20's stupid engine?
Well, there are plenty of chat engines out there, that's fer sure. Some may beat the pants off what I've got. BUT... what we're going with is EXTREMELY powerful, robust, and modular in comparison to the conventional JavaScript or Perl engine. So much of the environment is coded for your right out of the box! I've spent years coding and developing on it, so I know most of the in's and out's, thus it's not like we're treading into unknown territory.


So there's some more verbose crapola to assert why we're doing what we're doin'. Hope that helps ye! And now... WE DANCE!

[IFZen]

So OK 20T's, do you need a hand on your engine C-coding ?

[20 Ton Squirrel]

Muahahaha! Come on over to the engine and we'll see what ya got. I'd be happy to give you programmer priveleges and give you some examples. That's really why I wanted you in on this to begin with, IFzen... you've proven to have a better grasp on C than I do!


Gah, I'm such a poseur!

[Jesse]

OK I must just in here with a question of my own. Originalyl when this concept came about I was of the mind that we would make it entirely using XMLSocket and 20TS's engine would simply act as an XMLSocket server, but I gather it's gone beyond that now, based on all of us meeting in the MUD. So... my questions are:
- Is the MUSH we're using going to be the basis of the transactions? Like if I type "Bleh" in my Flash client, is it just going to communicate a "say Bleh" command to the server which in turn translates it into more data to be sent to other clients, or is it going to accept "Bleh" as an XML tag and spit it out that way... I'm confused. I'm sure I'd be less so if I'd taken more time to read up on the project recently but I've been soo busy.
- I'm doing the white board. The standalone works now, but I need to know how I'm going to communicate it to other clients. So far we have speced that a whiteboar dimage can be sent to one specifc user only. So I figured I'd create an XML doc that fully defines the image... then what? Will I pass it to an XMLScokect run by the engine which passes it out to the required user?

[vilehelm]

Actually i may have boogered up the description of the white board a tad. We/I had two ideas.

1 a pull down that would be populated by the @who listing. maybe at the end or beginning of the list there is an "all in room" so that if you had several people in a room you wouldn't have to send an image to each one...

or

2 clicking on the @who list below, however i don't think that's very intuitive


my other question to add to jesse's or actually ask jesse is how the sent image appears? should it be something that pops up on screen as a dynamic mc or swf or should it appear in the white board box of the sendees? there are pros and cons to both...

[Jesse]

We could make a Send button which, when clicked brought up a list of checkboxes and the user could check the names of the people they wanted their thingo to be sent to.

At the moment it uses vectors bascially. But I'm no maths head so it's simple. It allows you to draw lines from any point to any point, and add text labels. I'm goign to ad other features as I think of them.

As for how it's sent, it's an XML doc with one node per line drawn on the screen, so it's reconstructed at the reciever's end. Kinda like an e-card in my tute.

[red penguin]

Jesse...

In response to your first query, we have decided to stick with strick text from the client. The client, thus far, has toggle switches wich determine if you are "saying", "shouting", whispering", etc...So we don't have to type the commands at all...the onXML has given way to the onData Method (undocumented) due to the fact that it gets the sent info BEFORE Flash has a chance to parse it as xml...If we are going to be using xml, then we can revert back to the onXML Method, but I'm not sure how this will affect things. I suppose it won't be much of a problem, though. We just need to get the standard down in how the client will be interpreting the info...(as xml or text?)

At any rate, I'll get you a copy of the latest build...take a gander...

[Jesse]

OK I've been talking to Squirrel and I've looked at Red's client (awesome by the way), and for those of you who are confused we're basically making an interface for the server side engine (explained in the engine tutorial post by 20ts) which will allow us to use the virtual-environment function of the engine, or simplify it to a basic chat, depending on which way we want to go.