Amazon's in profit, why not Actionscripts?

[poab]

Hi,

Assuming that the forum makes money out of punting books via amazon it's probably a good idea to punt as many as possible. If they're quality that is. So.........

How about arranging a book club? Everyone who wants to learn something signs up for this particular program. Every one buys a particular book via the amazon link on the forum and we all go through the book together, helping each other over the complicated bits. I'm thinking of people less experienced (like me) with this one. (Obviously when I say everyone, I mean the people who want to learn whatever the current book is.)

You could even set up a forum section of it's own and do a book a month. Foundation PHP for April, Math Creativity for May, just in time for the school holidays; Flash 5 for beginners in June, etc.

Clearly there would be lots of "Has anyone got to chapter 3 yet?" and "Is that an errata on page 42?" questions which would exclude a certain number of people on the forum who hadn't bought the book, but hopefully there would be threads of interest to all, and the exclusion factor may even pursuade people to get involved the following month.

any thoughts?

[Ricod]

I see how that would help Amazon ... but Actionscript.org ?

[poab]

O.K.

I suppose I'm assuming that this site gets a cut of every book sale made through a link on it's site. In the same way that everyone else who promotes someone else's product on the web can expect a cut.

So if 100 people buy a 25 dollar book and the forum gets say 10% commission then that's 250 dollars towards servers or whatever.

That's helping a bit isn't it?

[maccer]

i c what you mean poab, i'd be curious though if actionscript.org get's enough 'sale click throughs' to warrent extra labour of this kind?

Jesse?

[vilehelm]

Yeah, i've gotten a couple books from here already but i think that you could easily widen the scope of the "library". It's called an affiliates program. Although, I'm sure that %10 is pushing it a bit every little bit does help...

[Jesse]

Amazon sales do contribute a significant percentage of our monthly income. I think the biggest problem with this is a legal one. We can't really discuss specific examples (en mass) given in books with people who don't own the books because we'd be in breach of copyright... At the moment we're running a big review campaign with 10 new titles being reviewed, so hopefully that will lead people to make a few more purchases via the site.

[vilehelm]

Is there a possibility of widening the selection? I've done a couple of reviews for Amazon that I could bring over here...short Amazon reviews but reviews nonetheless.

[pinkaboo]

Jesse - Out of interest do you have to buy a particular advertised book for AS to get the affiliates income or could you get a link so that if someone enters Amazon via the AS site and buys something you get a cut too? I hadn't thought about it but if the latter was true and I wanted to buy a book online I would certainly make the effort to go to AS.org and click through on any link here. Just wondering anyway.

K

[poab]

Hi,

O.K., fair enough on the legal issue, I can see that would be to much work to get around.

In that case how about increasing the selection of books that haven't been reviewed. As everyone wants to.

I have a couple of good ones at home on Motion Graphic Design. And some excellent ones on type design.

Obviously no one wants to recommend a book that turns out to be rubbish, but how easy would it be to set up a list of books, that people could then rate out of ten. Just like people vote in the polls? Not reviews, but it would give an indication of a books usefulness and might encourage people to pass through to Amazon, generating sales revenue. It would also reduce the preasure on individuals to review new books.

cheers.

[Jesse]

pinkaboo - we also get revenues if someone visits Amazon via our site and buy something completely unrelated within 24 hours but at a greatly reduced percentage.

poab - we'd gladly advertise more books but in the area of graphic design there are thousands of titles. If users would like to suggest various books they've found to be good, perhaps we could go about it that way.

[pixelwit]

I think Poab might be onto something. As good as this site is, most of us have still bought a book or two to keep up on Flash. I think a strong argument could be made that books coupled with online interaction could forge a fairly strong combination both educationally and economically.

Publishers might not be that large an obstacle to overcome. We don't necessarily need or want to quote the book, but making references to page numbers and such sounds like it would be a publishers dream. You can't follow along unless you can refer to the book. Everyone wants to follow along. Everyone wants to buy the book. That means book sales (or lots of "browsers" in the computer section of the local mall bookstore) and that means happy publishers. Maybe AS.org could work out a deal or maybe a deal wouldn't even be necessary.

I'm sort of curious how Poab envisions the "club" aspect developing. Perhaps there could be a book forum where owners of a certain book could ask for assistance with a particular section from other owners of the same book?

Well anyway, it's just an idea.

-PiXELWiT
http://www.pixelwit.com

[tg]

Originally posted by Jesse
poab - we'd gladly advertise more books but in the area of graphic design there are thousands of titles. If users would like to suggest various books they've found to be good, perhaps we could go about it that way.

also maybe some javascript books, cause as interacts with js so frequently(and we answer a few as related questions here).

[vilehelm]

So should we just start spouting suggestions of books we like?

[poab]

Hi,

O.K. I thought I'd take a proper stab at this instead of letting my brain dribble out of my mouth.


This is how it should work:

Week 1:

The section of the forum has a new thread, that remains at the top, (like the forum rules). This is just a poll, with a list of books. Members of the forum can vote in the poll, and it remains up permenantly.

Week 3:

There's now been 2 weeks of voting. The book with the most votes is book of the month. This book's votes are now reduced to zero, and it is the book we'll be using. The book isn't removed from the vote. This is something that will build over time (hopefully) and as such the book (as it's all ready been featured) won't get the votes two months in a row, but could be used a second third or fourth time, if demand warrants it.

Week 5:

There's now been 2 weeks to order the book and wait for it to arrive on your doormat (Or, let's face it, it's too big for your letter box, and you have to go down the post office and collect it). You can, of course buy the book at any time, but if you want in at the start you do it now.

The forum section devoted to the club opens it's doors for comments, assistance and clarification of issues arrising in the book, from other people who have bought it. (I'll discuss suggestions for solving the legal issues raised by Jesse in one moment.)

At the same time the poll for which book to feature is still open (for next month).

Week 7:

Exactly the same as week 3.

Week 8:

A new thread is opened at the top of the forum, with a poll, asking members to vote for the book, giving it a rating out of ten, and if they like, giving a (short) review. Actionscripts now has a new book to add to it's library, with a rating, based not on a reviewer's opinion but on a large user base, with comments from readers across a large range of abilities.

Week 9:

Exactly the same as week 5

etc.etc.etc.


There are a number of benefits immediatly apparent in setting up the 'book club'. Firstly, and probably most importantly revenue is increased. Secondly, we all learn something. Thirdly, site traffic is up, as the stickyness of the site is increased. Fourthly, as a unique resource (I haven't seen anything like this) the site is linked to, and recommended more frequently.

O.K., back to the serious stuff. If this suggestion is to flower at all it needs legal advice. To quote Jesse:

We can't really discuss specific examples (en mass) given in books with people who don't own the books because we'd be in breach of copyright...

Therefore we need a way of either proving that someone has bought the book. Or not discussing full code examples.

Not discussing code examples in full would look like the obvious way to go. A typical reply to a thread might be: "Right, I see what you've done. On page three, there's a comma in the center of the function. Additionally, you can expand the application by controlling the movement with a variable. That way you have a fully working html form in Flash." Any one not owning the book thinks "oooo, a fully working html form in Flash! I want one, where's my credit card? There would have to be a rule, something along the lines of you're not allowed to put up more than 75% of the code. But then try asking one of the moderators how many people read the forum rules. And so I don't think this will work.

The second possibility, and this one might work, is to get permission, or even try and recruit authors of books to ask the publishers for permission. Basically we'd all like to be working through books by friendofED, or O'Reilly. But how about trying the smaller companies that are trying to break into the market. Chances are they'd welcome the attention. Also because you're limiting it to one book a month there is minimal hassle in arranging it. I think this one is the way to go, either on it's own or with the solution below.

This suggestion is very workable and very possible: All you need is a security question as well as a password. Each time you post, a question is asked, for example: "what's the fourth word on the first line of page 28?" This question changes every few days, to stop people popping down the bookshop and looking it up. The moderator just checks that the correct security word has been submitted with the thread, and if not, deletes the thread. That way, no one without immediate access to the book can post. I don't know how possible it is to automate that on the forum, but if possible it needs to be, because otherwise it's probably too much work to ask someone to do.

I think the last one is the way to go. The only concern remaining is people accessing the discussion, but without participating. If possible, limiting access, would be legally sound, (you need the security question to get in, let alone post), but against the philosophy of the forum. Alternatly one, or both of the first suggestions, particularly the second one may solve that.

I'm not a lawyer or business strategist, but it just seems to make sense. Sorry for the extremely long thread. I like this forum and want to see it flourish.

cheers.

[playfool]

hi poab,
post this on the AS UK (http://www.flash-forum.co.uk/forum/) site to see if we get any reply's plus I would like some money coming in rather than out of my pocket...:)

[poab]

O.K. Playfool,

I've posted the same suggestion (with minor changes) at actionscripts.co.uk.

Have to say though I'm not sure how smart it is for me to have to hold the same conversation twice.

cheers.

[poab]

Well, I suspected that was a bit of shameless self-promotion. L.O.L.

But it looks like actionscripts.co.uk might give it a go.

So I guess we'll have to wait and see if they get sued. L.O.L.

I'm feeling a bit responsible now:(

cheers.